I haven’t watched any browns games this year but what is odell’s problem. Is he not getting separation this year or targets? Or having problems with drops? I have Odell in dynasty so I’m just curious. Thanks
By - benmarcsports2004
its a combination of 2 things:
1. he has absolutely horrendous chemistry with baker. it might be the worst chemistry of any qb-wr combo
2. they are a run first team and are not really looking to feed him 10+ targets a game unless they need to
How is his chemistry so bad with him?
They are never in sync. Baker does not adjust his passes to accommodate OBJ increasing or decreasing speed mid route. OBJ is not the best at placing himself into certain spots in the coverage unless it's straight trying to burn his defender.
At least this is what I see; after watching him with Eli as a Giants fan a lot of what made them special was Eli knowing situationally where OBJs route will be timing wise based on the defense/down and distance.
Browns fan here: the word on the street has been that Odell likes to improvise in his routes, which I believe leads to him getting open, but leaves Baker needing to lock in on him in order to find that opening. One would assume that in doing so, he is holding on to the ball and not reading through his progressions in a timely manner. If the rest of his receivers are running the routes as intended, it would make sense why Baker saw better success when OBJ was out last year; then again, it would be just as fair to assume that the improvement came when he became more comfortable in Stefanski’s offense.
Is there any legitimacy to this? It’s hard to say, but: Baker played great in the second half of last year, which coincided with Odell’s season-ending injury. Additionally, he was throwing close to 80 percent accuracy to start this season before the Bears game in week 3, when OBJ returned (though we know Baker also injured his non-throwing arm in the Houston in week 2, which appeared to hamper his throwing). As much as I have wanted to believe that OBJ would return this year to be a real weapon in this offense, it sure seems that Baker plays a different game without him.
[So the O'Dell parts of this video lead me to believe it's 100% legitimately possible he does this](https://youtu.be/t4l4kSdb_dY)
Go to about 4 minutes.
His trainer literally gave him a move to do that Baker had never practiced timing wise with him. It would not surprise me that he gets cute mid route.
It doesn’t help that Baker’s strength coming out of college was as a “rhythm and timing QB”. To me, that spells a match made in hell. The great QBs can make it work — apparently Kelce will commonly just look for open spots in the defense, and Mahomes is great at finding him. I think Baker isn’t that kind of QB, and frankly, if he can depend on his other route runners to be where he expects, I’m not surprised if he’s giving up on Odell early in the play.
I would actually love to see OBJ paired with Mahomes. Never gonna happen but it would be interesting.
I was super happy for the trainer though, he looked jacked up about it
I love the trainer I have no issue at all with that, but you as a player can't just decide game day to essentially make up routes and expect the QB to have the same timing
I can see OBJ signing with the giants once he becomes a free agent.
Toney and OBJ's fight club
Damn. I didn’t even see that comparison. Nice.
An offense where the receivers double team the CBs
He missed OBJ on two walk in touchdowns a couple weeks ago, it’s very strange
It’s not just chemistry. Baker may be the most average QB in the NFL in terms of his floor and ceiling. He’s not good.
Baker is the new Andy Dalton and I’ll die on that hill. Probably soon too.
*Edit* Prime Bengals Andy Dalton. Not Chicago Dalton.
No bias at all here from a steelers fan.
Bias or not, the Steelers fan is right though
Love your flair btw
Haha I do hate the Browns but that’s possible! I do encourage you to try and rank Baker higher than the QB 20 in dynasty, minus the names I listed in my other comment.
Baker is a below average QB in a tremendous situation with a great O line and defense.
His great defense that gave up 47 to the Chargers?
Their D-Line is good and their linebackers are above average, but they have so many injuries to their DBs. They got torched by LA's receiving corps.
One game. The browns d is legit. They have the players.
It's also the Chargers who are a great offense.
Yes. Even the best defenses get out played on any given day. See: New England’s loss to Hou.
We have injuries everywhere. It's funny that DL and LB injuries are ignored and labeled as good, but DB injuries imply a weakness.
Baker tries so hard to appease OBJ but they are never on the same page lol
But I was told this off-season that Baker had turned a corner under Stefanski and anyone doubting OBJs resurgence was a dunce of the highest order.
OBJs first season with the browns I was so excited but they were just always misfiring and could never connect. It was so weird. They’re like the reverse of a Peyton Manning - Marvin Harrison type duo.
This is his 3rd season with the browns, I think people need to start to realize that the hope for him to even be a solid WR2 is gone while he’s on the team. Ever since he’s gotten there he has underperformed
I’d argue it’s Baker and not OBJ. NFL purgatory.
Some of the all 22 clips from their last game was pretty bad on baker. Just not seeing everything
And he's playing with an injury so when he does finally target Odell deep he's missing, match made in hell and the injury isn't going anywhere this year.
I got Odell for so insanely cheap it was worth it
What did you pay? I'm trying to acquire
A 4th round pick and perriman. This was after he tore his acl
I'm in a league with 5 bench spots and I'm about to drop him to hold onto waddle and toney.
Yea he’s a great buy low, but he doesn’t have much of a ceiling it seems like
In fairness he had over 1000 yards his first year there. But yes he’s 29 and is very clearly not the player he used to be his first 3 years in the league. He’s gonna be one of those guys you just can’t trade cuz nobody wants to pay anything decent, but you might as well hang on cuz no reason to sell him for pennies
Someone was arguing with me about how Odell was coming back to form as a WR1 and how dare I not realize that. Dude hasn't been that in YEARS. And then to try to do it on a team that runs the ball down everyone's throats... sure.
Baker is atrocious
There were two missed tds against Minnesota that were on baker. They just can't connect never seen anything like it
He has a Baker problem...
I’m thinking about starting Tim Patrick over him
i’ll give a somewhat unique opinion as a pro OBJ anti Landry Browns fan
OBJ is still so clearly our most electric and quickest wide receiver. Ward is the only person on the team who is as fast as OBJ, guy is like lightning.
OBJ has had 0 training camp with Stefanski due to COVID and ACL. he’s only 3 weeks back from that ACL. he was wide open to seal the game against the Vikings, but Baker completely missed him. on Njoku’s touchdown, Baker could have hit OBJ and he would have housed it with ease (you can find the clip on Jake Burns twitter).
OBJ is the only player on this Browns team that can go downfield with any true ability. Jarvis Landry hasn’t caught a ball 30 yards downfield in the last 3 seasons. Higgins is my favorite current Brown, but he’s a WR3 who can win certain matchups. Njoku is nice up the seams and Schwartz will be a true threat one day. DPJ is Khaderel Hodge with a marketing department. OBJ is the only deep threat
when Landry comes back, defenses will have to respect him within 20 yards and that will be enough for OBJ to spring through.
Stefanski wants OBJ to get the ball, Baker wants OBJ to get the ball, and i’m gonna guess you know how OBJ feels
that dropped pass on 4th down was bad, but we’re trying to win fantasy championships, not bring glory to cleveland.
TL;DR OBJ is still quick af and he will get shots because he’s the only one on the browns who can. buy reasonably
This is some great insight here and I would agree with most of these points. OBJ does seem to have SOUL CRUSHING drops way too often for how 'elite' of a talent he is.
There are over 20 QBs who I’d rather have than Baker as both an NFL team and dynasty owner. And that’s not including the old men - Brady, Matt Ryan, Roethlisberger or the guys in his tier - Goff, Bridgewater, Winston and Tua. Baker relies on a great defense, dominant running game and offensive line. He isn’t a 2nd reaction athlete so he can’t extend plays and he’s not all that accurate. Hunt leads the team in targets. Gross. Baker is the bigger problem.
So of the 32 starting qbs in the nfl, you have baker, at the highest, at #28
No. I said take out the players listed. No point comparing the old guys and the ones in his tier. I’d quite easily take 20 QBs outside of the ones I listed over Baker.
You said there are over 20 QBs you'd take over him and that's not including the old men or the guys in his tier. So i read that as you'd also take those 7 over him. Even if you wouldn't that still means there are 20 QBs other than those 7 you would take before you took Baker? That seems high.
I just wasn’t including them for dynasty purposes. I realize I’m low on Baker. But I’d rather have the upside of young players instead of the “known” of Baker.
Ok I’m a Browns fan I think Baker is clearly an above average QB but for a dynasty league yeah he’s probably 20th or worse because he’s going to be in this offense for a long time and not have the volume.
This is a very stupid comment based not off of fact, but opinion, and a very poorly construed opinion at that.
I took out the old guys. I took out a few in his tier IMO and there are still 20 guys that I would rather have. That is my opinion. Never said it was a fact - I even said that I’m low on Baker. We just know his ceiling and it’s not good. He may surprise and develop but the browns would be making an epic mistake if they pay him like a top 10 QB. “Stupid”. LOL it’s my opinion and you are a Browns fan. ;)
Baker Mayfield has the worst footwork and lower body mechanics I’ve ever seen for a “franchise” QB. There’s a reason the only fantasy viable WR through his tenure is the one who catches short passes.
Low volume, Baker missing him, and OBJ just flat out isn’t the same player. For every Baker miss there’s a drop or terrible effort on a route. It’s like OBJ has mentally checked out and is just looking forward to moving on.
Low passing volume system, Baker has been super inaccurate with him when he is open, and at some point you have to wonder if OBJ himself is the problem since he has only sporadically produced at all since like 2018
>what is odell’s problem
Just this year more like the last 4
He sucks. What else do you need to know.
Where’s that guy who said OBJ would be so great when he came back…. Told you! Lol
I think there’s a consensus here that OBJ and Baker don’t align because OBJ likes to improvise. In that case, I think he would fit well with:
Mahomes, Allen, Murray, Wilson, Watson, Hurts, Fields and other guys that also improvise and move around in the pocket well.
I would avoid rhythm and timing QBs like Brady, Baker obviously, Ryan, Cousins, Mac, you get the point.
Pair OBJ up with a black QB or Josh Allen!
Yeah, because Eli Manning was known for his improvisation on the field