Someone pointed out a month or so ago that as we've moved into the 2020s, eccentricities and weird happenings are more and more written off in cities. I believe they cited someone in Portland or Seattle waving what looked like a wand and producing flame; most of the people around them were pretty much ignoring it. That doesn't answer the satellite issue, so the bigger issue now is whether or not cameras can see through the various protections hiding Magical real estate. Based on what I've read, there's no consensus among fans. (Although I did like the fic where Harry tweaks Dumbledore's beard by telling him he has a lovely satellite photo of Hogwarts above his bed and has similar prints of Beaubatons and Durmstrang for Fleur and Victor.)
Of course, in the 1990s, cameras catching strange happenings would have been a much greater concern as Muggle tech hadn't advanced far enough (nor was affordable enough) for just anyone to have. And of course, even now, anything like that used in a crime will be examined closely, making it a potential weakness.
Can't say about 1990s, but the cameras these days work on several spectrums of light and are far more capable. They might not capture the exact image, but maybe some kind of anomaly that's only visible in, say UV or thermal. Also, you can't hide from satellites. It would be kind of obvious when muggles pull up a satelite image of their cities and find entire chunks missing( i am assuming wards might provide a blank view when viewing from space)
And the biggest concern of all - the internet. All it would take a is messed up obliviation job and a kid with a mobile phone for wizards to go viral on YouTube š
Satellites have been around since the sixties in major numbers, I am certain that in the timeframe 60s-90s some satellites took photos of London. Seeing as the wizard of world is still secret, your hypothesis is incorrect.
Are you comparing satellites from the sixties to the ones in more recent times?
Sure there were a lot of them around even back then, but they are obviously old, the tech has advanced exponentially since then. The newer ones could probably pose a serious threat.
Also, there is no contention IF the muggle govt.s knew about the existence of WW, they did, but they probably did not realise the extent to which the wizards fked with them and then just wiped their minds.
SURE, the muggle govt. somehow stomached this, the general population certainly would not.
Lol i just got it...
Sure, not all people would believe it but some would even if its just 0.1% who believe it, it's still a huge number when it comes to muggles.
if it runs off electricity it won't work. Electrical devices don't work in large concentration of magic. Magically literally can keep you in the stone age unless you adapt your device to run on magic. Like magical radios.
You say that as if Photoshop, CGI, and other special effects don't exist.
Any proof that would find its way on the internet would be written off as a fake by people using those tools. And the wizarding community would encourage that a lot.
Probably in a few years when deep fake has gotten more advanced we will be unable to differentiate true videos from fake ones. A video will pop up of a politician doing something illegal and they will say : Bah thats just deepfake. Those in power will use propaganda videos to brainwash the masses and keep them on their side. Chaos will prevail.
except in muslim countries. They'd assume that's real magic and chop your head off. I'd assume some amish/christian heavy communities would feel similar.
Iāve seen a gazillion videos of āmagic.ā Iāve seen talented magicians on stages. I still donāt believe in magic. I donāt have to know the details of how every trick is done to understand that itās a trick.
On the Satellites point, we already get āblanked outā parts of satellite photos, where normally there are military or other installationsā¦ Iād imagine it would be passed off as something like that!
Because magic is works conceptually. Secrets can be hidden in souls. Taboos can be recognized and made to bring about magical effects. Places can be made unplottable. You can confund an object. You can then most likely obliviate a computer, muggle-repelling charms likely still work on satellite photos, etc.
Of course, the how question isn't even that relevant. It's not nearly impossible. It's definitely possible.
Satellite, CCTV, and aerial photography was already very prevalent in the late 20th century. And yet when giants destroyed several towns, the UK government thought that it was the result of a hurricane. Dragon reserves are hidden from governments over the world. It does not matter that we never see the magic the obliviators use in the books to cover it up. We know that it is possible to hide magic from the muggles despite technology because we see them doing so.
It also helps that the magical government controls the muggle government.
I am just saying, even something as powerful as fidelus charm depends on a human to hold. Humans who are characteristically weak of character. They are fickle, immoral, greedy, and more often than not, cowardly. The magic maybe powerful, but it depends on human will and therefore can be broken.
Broken spells can be recast. Damage done can be mitigated by Obliviation and the natural human instinct to rationalise strange occurences within the frame of existing knowledge. Everything you mentioned already existed in the 90s, so if wizards dealt with it then, they can deal with it later too.
When I think of the wizarding world being outed, i picture huge mobs or angry people frothing at the mouth, with guns and ammunition instead of pitchforks killing or maiming. Like witch hunts all over again.
And we're here saying that is extremely improbable, since every concern you've mentioned was already a concern in the 90s, and since the Statute wasn't at risk then it wouldn't be at risk now.
Maybe.. but you have to agree that because of the internet the information can not be as easily erased or suppressed. If not all muggles, atleast some would believe. We know they can see through magic if they try because of fantastic beasts story line. A muggle enters Hogwarts and even the ministry. There would atleast be some fringe groups of crazy muggles trying to hunt down wizards with shotguns and bazookas.
Crackpot conspiracy theorists ranting about secret societies of wizards and witches in this day and age? They'd be taken less seriously than flat earthers.
Wizards are basically the Illuminati. They have mind powers and control all of the worldās governments.
Thereās also the fact that no matter how advanced surveillance technology becomes it still functions on the mundane level and will never be able to āseeā magic that doesnāt want to be seen. Magic deals in absolutes , itās supernatural.
That doesnāt go against my point. The government knows and yet still sees it within their best interest to maintain the statute of secrecy and not interfere in magical business. There was a whole civil war on British soil with muggle civilians being targeted and the muggle government couldnāt do anything about it. Muggle hunting is technically illegal for wizards but thatās only so much of a deterrent and only stops people who get caught by the DMLE. Muggle police donāt stand a chance against a witch or wizard. What sovereign nation would allow that if there wasnāt an implicit threat of force or mind control from the wizards? They tell the PM but if the PM were to take that knowledge and attempt to tell others or do something the ministry didnāt like they would just be obliviated.
Kingsley works as the inside man in the muggle goverment, not for them there is a diffrence. He was more of the security so that bad guys wouldn't mind control the prime minister.
Put it this way, had Kinglsey wanted to he could of had the british prime minister work as his puppet with nobody knowing about it.
Iāve seen the following explanation in a fic: they donāt. The muggle government does it for them. The reason: the magical governments have created a planet wide modified fire suppression ward
scheme, that can render anything with fire, including cars, planes, and most importantly **guns**, absolutely useless. It also is capable of preventing fission and fusion. The muggles decided that revealing magic might cause economic collapse and therefore try and keep it secret.
The governments already know about Magic the British PM had a scene in book 6 and Kingsley Shakelbolt worked as his Secretary/Bodyguard. So they would probably cover it up.
electrical devices don't work in an area with a large concentration of magic. So....good luck with spying with cameras. Gotta go old school if you can find your way into the community. THe best defence against non-electrical tech is knowing what is out there and being proactive, not reactive. Hide before the enemy comes. Shield your home before they shoot.
Yes, I agree they are going to have a hard time installing cameras outside diagonal alley,however wizards can get caught on camera while performing magic in muggle world.
They don't.
They barely understand that television and phones are a thing. You can't really magic away a problem you don't know needs to be addressed in the first place. Modern tech is basically just as much of an out of context problem for wizards as magic is for muggles.
Their best hope is probably to rely on the muggle government doing it for them. I could totally see them running a censorship and disinformation campaign in order to keep the peace while they get all their ducks in a row for the eventual big reveal.
I say eventual because you simply can't keep such a big secret indefinitely even with the aid of magic and government censorship working in tandem. Sooner or later the truth will get out, and that's more true now than ever before.
Sure, the wizards don't know a lot about tech, but that's mostly because of the purebloods (with few exception ns)who dislike muggles. After the second war and the defeat of voldemort more muggleborns like Hermione Granger would probably be able to hold important positions of power and influence the wizarding culture atleast to a degree where these threats could atleast be acknowledged.
Someone pointed out a month or so ago that as we've moved into the 2020s, eccentricities and weird happenings are more and more written off in cities. I believe they cited someone in Portland or Seattle waving what looked like a wand and producing flame; most of the people around them were pretty much ignoring it. That doesn't answer the satellite issue, so the bigger issue now is whether or not cameras can see through the various protections hiding Magical real estate. Based on what I've read, there's no consensus among fans. (Although I did like the fic where Harry tweaks Dumbledore's beard by telling him he has a lovely satellite photo of Hogwarts above his bed and has similar prints of Beaubatons and Durmstrang for Fleur and Victor.) Of course, in the 1990s, cameras catching strange happenings would have been a much greater concern as Muggle tech hadn't advanced far enough (nor was affordable enough) for just anyone to have. And of course, even now, anything like that used in a crime will be examined closely, making it a potential weakness.
Can't say about 1990s, but the cameras these days work on several spectrums of light and are far more capable. They might not capture the exact image, but maybe some kind of anomaly that's only visible in, say UV or thermal. Also, you can't hide from satellites. It would be kind of obvious when muggles pull up a satelite image of their cities and find entire chunks missing( i am assuming wards might provide a blank view when viewing from space) And the biggest concern of all - the internet. All it would take a is messed up obliviation job and a kid with a mobile phone for wizards to go viral on YouTube š
Satellites have been around since the sixties in major numbers, I am certain that in the timeframe 60s-90s some satellites took photos of London. Seeing as the wizard of world is still secret, your hypothesis is incorrect.
Are you comparing satellites from the sixties to the ones in more recent times? Sure there were a lot of them around even back then, but they are obviously old, the tech has advanced exponentially since then. The newer ones could probably pose a serious threat. Also, there is no contention IF the muggle govt.s knew about the existence of WW, they did, but they probably did not realise the extent to which the wizards fked with them and then just wiped their minds. SURE, the muggle govt. somehow stomached this, the general population certainly would not.
I'm afraid to ask but... do you believe everything you read and see on the internet?
ā¦no? Whatās your point?
Lol i just got it... Sure, not all people would believe it but some would even if its just 0.1% who believe it, it's still a huge number when it comes to muggles.
if it runs off electricity it won't work. Electrical devices don't work in large concentration of magic. Magically literally can keep you in the stone age unless you adapt your device to run on magic. Like magical radios.
You say that as if Photoshop, CGI, and other special effects don't exist. Any proof that would find its way on the internet would be written off as a fake by people using those tools. And the wizarding community would encourage that a lot.
That's a good point.
Probably in a few years when deep fake has gotten more advanced we will be unable to differentiate true videos from fake ones. A video will pop up of a politician doing something illegal and they will say : Bah thats just deepfake. Those in power will use propaganda videos to brainwash the masses and keep them on their side. Chaos will prevail.
except in muslim countries. They'd assume that's real magic and chop your head off. I'd assume some amish/christian heavy communities would feel similar.
There goes that ignorance again.
Some instances? Yes. Many even? Probably. All of them? No. Eventually something will get out that can't be debunked or written off.
Iāve seen a gazillion videos of āmagic.ā Iāve seen talented magicians on stages. I still donāt believe in magic. I donāt have to know the details of how every trick is done to understand that itās a trick.
On the Satellites point, we already get āblanked outā parts of satellite photos, where normally there are military or other installationsā¦ Iād imagine it would be passed off as something like that!
Because magic is works conceptually. Secrets can be hidden in souls. Taboos can be recognized and made to bring about magical effects. Places can be made unplottable. You can confund an object. You can then most likely obliviate a computer, muggle-repelling charms likely still work on satellite photos, etc. Of course, the how question isn't even that relevant. It's not nearly impossible. It's definitely possible. Satellite, CCTV, and aerial photography was already very prevalent in the late 20th century. And yet when giants destroyed several towns, the UK government thought that it was the result of a hurricane. Dragon reserves are hidden from governments over the world. It does not matter that we never see the magic the obliviators use in the books to cover it up. We know that it is possible to hide magic from the muggles despite technology because we see them doing so. It also helps that the magical government controls the muggle government.
Secrets can be broken too, as we know, all it takes is traitorous rat.
Yes? But that's sort of inherent in the concept of a secret. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.
I am just saying, even something as powerful as fidelus charm depends on a human to hold. Humans who are characteristically weak of character. They are fickle, immoral, greedy, and more often than not, cowardly. The magic maybe powerful, but it depends on human will and therefore can be broken.
Broken spells can be recast. Damage done can be mitigated by Obliviation and the natural human instinct to rationalise strange occurences within the frame of existing knowledge. Everything you mentioned already existed in the 90s, so if wizards dealt with it then, they can deal with it later too.
Not all damage can be reversed. There is no bringing back the dead.
That's not the kind of damage you're talking about though. Magical deaths have already been explained away in canon as stuff like gas leak explosions.
When I think of the wizarding world being outed, i picture huge mobs or angry people frothing at the mouth, with guns and ammunition instead of pitchforks killing or maiming. Like witch hunts all over again.
And we're here saying that is extremely improbable, since every concern you've mentioned was already a concern in the 90s, and since the Statute wasn't at risk then it wouldn't be at risk now.
Maybe.. but you have to agree that because of the internet the information can not be as easily erased or suppressed. If not all muggles, atleast some would believe. We know they can see through magic if they try because of fantastic beasts story line. A muggle enters Hogwarts and even the ministry. There would atleast be some fringe groups of crazy muggles trying to hunt down wizards with shotguns and bazookas.
Picture muggle death eaters.š
Crackpot conspiracy theorists ranting about secret societies of wizards and witches in this day and age? They'd be taken less seriously than flat earthers.
>How...? Magic.
Wizards are basically the Illuminati. They have mind powers and control all of the worldās governments. Thereās also the fact that no matter how advanced surveillance technology becomes it still functions on the mundane level and will never be able to āseeā magic that doesnāt want to be seen. Magic deals in absolutes , itās supernatural.
Dude the British government knows about the Wizards in Harry Potter Kingsley Shaklebolt works as the PM's Secretary/Bodyguard with the PM's knowledge.
That doesnāt go against my point. The government knows and yet still sees it within their best interest to maintain the statute of secrecy and not interfere in magical business. There was a whole civil war on British soil with muggle civilians being targeted and the muggle government couldnāt do anything about it. Muggle hunting is technically illegal for wizards but thatās only so much of a deterrent and only stops people who get caught by the DMLE. Muggle police donāt stand a chance against a witch or wizard. What sovereign nation would allow that if there wasnāt an implicit threat of force or mind control from the wizards? They tell the PM but if the PM were to take that knowledge and attempt to tell others or do something the ministry didnāt like they would just be obliviated.
Kingsley works as the inside man in the muggle goverment, not for them there is a diffrence. He was more of the security so that bad guys wouldn't mind control the prime minister. Put it this way, had Kinglsey wanted to he could of had the british prime minister work as his puppet with nobody knowing about it.
And the prime minister only found out when he was told by the magical government.
Iāve seen the following explanation in a fic: they donāt. The muggle government does it for them. The reason: the magical governments have created a planet wide modified fire suppression ward scheme, that can render anything with fire, including cars, planes, and most importantly **guns**, absolutely useless. It also is capable of preventing fission and fusion. The muggles decided that revealing magic might cause economic collapse and therefore try and keep it secret.
The governments already know about Magic the British PM had a scene in book 6 and Kingsley Shakelbolt worked as his Secretary/Bodyguard. So they would probably cover it up.
electrical devices don't work in an area with a large concentration of magic. So....good luck with spying with cameras. Gotta go old school if you can find your way into the community. THe best defence against non-electrical tech is knowing what is out there and being proactive, not reactive. Hide before the enemy comes. Shield your home before they shoot.
Yes, I agree they are going to have a hard time installing cameras outside diagonal alley,however wizards can get caught on camera while performing magic in muggle world.
i suppose you could argue that magic would cause the technology to malfunction. either total failure or momentary blips
They don't. They barely understand that television and phones are a thing. You can't really magic away a problem you don't know needs to be addressed in the first place. Modern tech is basically just as much of an out of context problem for wizards as magic is for muggles. Their best hope is probably to rely on the muggle government doing it for them. I could totally see them running a censorship and disinformation campaign in order to keep the peace while they get all their ducks in a row for the eventual big reveal. I say eventual because you simply can't keep such a big secret indefinitely even with the aid of magic and government censorship working in tandem. Sooner or later the truth will get out, and that's more true now than ever before.
Sure, the wizards don't know a lot about tech, but that's mostly because of the purebloods (with few exception ns)who dislike muggles. After the second war and the defeat of voldemort more muggleborns like Hermione Granger would probably be able to hold important positions of power and influence the wizarding culture atleast to a degree where these threats could atleast be acknowledged.