T O P
TalkingToPlanets

From just looking at stats they look similar when you look at Sextons 3rd season. With that said Sexton was a net negative his first 2 seasons and basically net neutral his 3rd season. I still think Sexton will keep improving but he's not in Mitchell's class. Don is the better rebounder and facilitator. Don also has a better wingspan but ofc he really didn't even try defensively his last 2 years in Utah. Don also would've been miserable if Utah kept him this season. I like Sexton's potential, he has talent esp when you look at what he did offensively at age 21. Hes also a good locker room guy who works hard. I think Jazz fans will end up liking him.


SelfLoathingLionsFan

I was surprised to hear how hard a worker and how good a locker room guy he was. Larry Nance Jr. said the best he's played with in that regard is 1.) Ingram and 2.) Sexton... And he's played with LeBron (although somewhat old and not for long).


lust3

Cavs fan here. I’m really happy for Collin. Everyone generally loved his attitude and demeanor. The contract negotiations were difficult but I’m happy to see a seemingly good person get a life-changing deal.


aTROLLwithBlades

Nance Jr might be the type of guy that wants partners at clubs though


Baseball-Former

Was surprised by that too, especially because Kevin love by all means seemed to hate the kid to start with.


BleedGreen4Boston

K-Love hated him (on the court) because he went from playing with Lebron’s BBIQ to Sexton’s, who by all accounts is a terrible floor general at the NBA level, classic 2 guard trapped in a point guard’s body


JoshFarc24

What do you think the jazz plans are now? Trade Clarkson and Bogi for draft picks and expirings to truly tank for Nuyumambamabamabanabanama


Kaaalesaaalad

Pretty sure its because you're being obviously racist.


JoshFarc24

Downvites for asking what the jazz will do next? It's an honest question.....?


onlyrionny

Downvotes for being obnoxious


socialist_butterfly0

And racist


GlueGuy00

The eye test between the 2 players doesn't compare


SnooBooks6351

Have you watched either of them play?


GrandTable9461

He hasn’t


SnooBooks6351

Gotta love the ppl who watch zero ball and form their opinions completely on stats


moonshadow50

Aaaand... this is why you shouldn't just compare stats out of context


Garrett_James_Lucas

Yeah but do you think the difference between the two is 20 million per year? Honestly asking.


OKC2023champs

No. Undersized guards who pop off are always going to get the bag. If garland hadn’t broke out the cavs would have given sexton the bag to stay as well.


ThatBull_cj

Yea, Mitchell has lead the number one offense two years in a row, he has changed defenses in the playoffs, he has had playoff games where he has been unstoppable. Sexton got a lot of points for a 19 win team and has even less playmaking ability and off ball ability


temp949939118r72892

Mitchell wasn't close to being the engine of that team, maybe in 2020 and before. But now that jazz team is just incredible team ball and coaching


cletoreyes01

So donny doesn't get credit for fitting in and striving within that intricate system?


IamSofakingRAW

Nah it’s all the guys with low usage who have way over 50% of their FGM assisted that carried that offense. Mitchell with his 30% usage and gravity when he attacks had nothing to do with guys getting open! /s


sauceEsauceE

The difference is Mitchell is a competitive advantage at his position against 25-27 of the other 29 teams Sexton is a competitive disadvantage against 25 of the 29 teams Sexton hurts your team on both sides of the ball. He’s a good 3 level scorer but one of the lowest BBiQ players in the nba. He never makes a pass to move the ball. He only passes if he’s stuck or to get an assist. He can’t make entry passes. He can’t use big men at all. Impact metrics show how mediocre Sexton is and how amazing Mitchell is


aznhoopster

As a cavs fan, I’m not saying you’re wrong because a lot of your points ring true, but his progression in IQ since his rookie year has drastically improved too. It’s still nowhere near perfect, but his one-dimensional play became more of an asset to us than a liability over time. I think there is a ceiling to his play tho unfortunately


sauceEsauceE

As a Cavs fan I hear you I think his value scales exponentially the worse his teammates are and drop the more talent he plays with. He will never get the most out of any of his teammates and he struggles filling a role that doesn’t feature him He sucked last season. Yes it was a small sample but his scoring and assists plummeted and his turnovers skyrocketed trying to fit into a lower usage team focused role


aznhoopster

Yup, the only way he was gonna be a solid player for us is in a scoring, off-the-bench role I think, and we weren’t gonna pay his asking price for that I don’t think.


King_Artis

If it's one thing I've learned from nba Reddit, it's that people don't understand context at all nor even think about it as if it doesn't, more often than not, explain the data


mantistobogganmMD

Mitchel being 25 pounds heavier and 3.5” longer wingspan makes him a wayyy better fit as a 2 besides Garland.


Wavestarr

Very similar players, but Mitchell has a lot of great playoff series.


cletoreyes01

You mean averaging 28/5/5 over a 5 year post season span is leagues better than the Sexgod's random 40 pt. Explosions on some random march game?? Get tf out of here/s


BlueJays007

Raptor * Mitchell: +1.2 (+2 offensive, -0.7 defensive) * Sexton: -2.5 (+0.4 off, -2.9 def) Lebron * Mitchell: +1.72 (+1.42 off, +0.3 def) * Sexton: -0.87 (+0.7 off, -1.57 def) Sexton in general has negative advanced stats while Mitchell’s were (and continue to be) positive.


frootluipdungis

This is called playing with Gobert.


THEDumbasscus

And now he plays with Mobley and Jarrett Allen, I don’t get what Gobert’s name adds to this conversation


frootluipdungis

??? Sexton played on a tanking team and Mitchell played with a good team anchored by an impact stat darling.


THEDumbasscus

He goes from great rim protection to great rim protection. Nothing is going to change with Mitchell’s advanced numbers because he no longer plays with Gobert. This is as closely analogous to Utah defensively as Mitchell was gonna find anywhere in a trade.


frootluipdungis

That’s all well and good but the conversation was comparing Mitchell and Sexton and someone raised impact stats to differentiate the two. I was simply noting that Mitchell has played in an advantageous situation when it comes to impact stats and Sexton has not.


temp949939118r72892

Legitimately means absolutely nothing. If you had 2 identical players but one played on the best team in the league and the other on the worst, than that first player would have waaaay better advanced stats


sauceEsauceE

Sexton is his small samples size trying to fit in this year played horribly -scoring down 7ppg -shooting % down across the board -lowest assist rate of his career by far -highest turnover rate of his career by far Sexton is too stupid of a basketball player to fit into a system


JoshFarc24

Good stats to counter. You are right as Sexton hasn't played on a winning team and him.being hurt this past season coinides with the Cavs winning more.... I still think Mitchell is overrated though


TheGreatBeauty2000

How much of Sexton have you watched?


JoshFarc24

Not enough for sure


Joetheshow1

Clearly


temp949939118r72892

The funny part is that you and all these people asking "have you even watched sexton?" Also haven't watched him. He's way closer to mitchell than you guys want to admit. This is just more proof that having better teammates is the only thing people care about


IamSofakingRAW

Mitchell is closer to Booker than Sexton is to either of them. It’s like trying to say Jeramy Grant and Pascal Siakam are similar players by just comparing per 36 and possession stats without looking at impact on winning and role


terrybrugehiplo

Can I ask sincerely without trying to be a dick. How many games of each have you watched?


JoshFarc24

I honestly haven't watched much of Sexton. I think it's funny the downvites I'm just trying to spark discussion. Obviously Mitchell is a better player but the question is was he worth Sexton marketing three first round picks and their other first round draft pick?


GonnaWinDis

Yes. Sexton was a terrible fit next to Garland and the Cavs knew that... He was known as a ball hog, played terrible off-ball, with chemistry issues (both on-off court) with his teammates, and his defense was just as bad as Mitchell lawl (ironic, because his defense in college was much better) — which is why they've been trying to get rid of him even before his injury, and even offered a low offer. Mitchell is a far better off-ball player, has a bigger and more dynamic bag in his game, more athletic, more lethal 3 pt shooter, a proven-playoff stud, and a net-positive. And 1st round picks are highly overvalued


Lamatooo

Mitchell was a more lethal 3pt shooter and was winning games


Lamatooo

I’m also taking Mitchell’s length and athleticism over Sexton’s


suncorsux

Sexton did have that insane game vs the Nets


Goomby-or-Glootie

Sexton himself is a very good 3PT shooter too.


TheTrollisStrong

Nah. He's been serviceable. But can other shoot 3s typically after he dribbles for a little.


InAingeWeTrust

Pretty low volume


richochet12

Mitchell had a better team than Sexton for the most part.


temp949939118r72892

>for the most part This doesn't belong at all, Mitchell's team is miles better


richochet12

Word. I think Mitchell is better but it's unfair to include wins in the discussion like that's an individual accomplishment.


temp949939118r72892

Mitchell's team was also 10x better and he's not even the best player on his team.


Riiicee

It’s so funny that I’m starting to see Jazz fans posting this on social media recently since as a Cavs fan I have seen people posting this for like 3 years. Now that Sexton (whom I love with all my heart) is on the Jazz, I am relieved to not have to pretend it means anything whatsoever lol


Diamond4Hands4Ever

I think this is the wrong sub to post this, but I responded to a similar thing on another sub. You have to look at net impact stats imo, and in that, Mitchell is far more dominant. It’s probably because Mitchell is much better off-ball and has higher awareness. Even though Mitchell also sometimes can be a ballhog, he’s also still better at moving the ball than Sexton. Mitchell is not good at defense, but he’s still better than Sexton. This will all show up in the net impact stats like O-RAPTOR or if you watch them play (not requirement though but I’m sure it’ll show up in film too).


[deleted]

Empty stats on a shitty team


giannisfan2007

Just like DBook right?


[deleted]

No. If Book was available as a RFA teams would have been lining up to get him. If Sexton ever makes makes 1st team all NBA I will stop using Reddit.


RequirementOk7048

Yeah, but DBook 6’5 so nobody had concerns


giannisfan2007

So stupid. I don’t understand this idea that having worse teammates actually makes it easier to score


RequirementOk7048

Dbook wasn’t a balhog and didn’t had a “i’m a one man team attitude” like Sexton


Friendly-Thought-973

“So nobody had concerns” Yes they did lol They also said Trae Young was one too


TomGNYC

Just judging by his actual value, Sexton's an empty stats guy. He just spent an entire restricted free agency period with no one making a single offer. That tells you all you need to know.


Diamond4Hands4Ever

To be fair, no one could make an offer besides the Pistons, Pacers, and Spurs. None of them really want Sexton. Pistons already have two young guards. So do the Pacers. Sexton clearly doesn’t fit the style in San Antonio. I’m not saying Sexton is good, but he also got kind of screwed by the market.


TomGNYC

That's not really true, though. You know how this works. We saw it with the Knicks just a couple months ago. They opened up cap room to sign a much more expensive player than Sexton. Almost all these teams have the ability to open up cap space if they want a guy, and the rest of them can do a sign and trade. A guy of Sexton's age, with his stats should attract a lot of interest. The fact that he didn't really says something.


Diamond4Hands4Ever

I mean he got 4/72 which I think is pretty reasonable. Might even be too much if he’s truly only a 6th man. Not many teams have the type of moveable contracts like the Knicks did to clear up a ton of cap space.


mr__fredman

How many knee injuries did Donovan Mitchell have after the age of 22?


JoshFarc24

Touche


juan_cena99

While this is true, you also have to remember Mitchell took a gargantuan leap in the last couple of years esp in the playoffs. In the playoffs Mitchell was recording like 64% TS while dishing out 5 assists and getting like 6 boards a night. Its like all those no 1 high school prospects in high school that look like Lebron or MJ but then fall in draft stock a year later. Sexton may be comparable to Mitchell as a 22 yr old, but it remains to be seen if he will take the next step like Mitchell did.


[deleted]

Mitchell has been the first option on great teams and performed well in the playoffs. Sexton has been a tank commander.


AccomplishedRainbow1

No, don’t do this.


pericles123

Stop this nonsense


danglez69

I feel like alot of those offense only combo guards or wtv you wanna call them come in and usually do a decent job of scoring, kinda hit the ground running. But there's a cross roads after like your second or third season were you either go up or you just kinda plateau and it is what it is. Some of that is narrative, but not all of it. Mitchell was doing this for what was a top 5 seed team and playoff contender(someone correct me i could be wrong), Sexton was doing it in an environment that the games matter alot less. Most likely less pressure. And then just some of the percentages make sexton look good, but you gotta use context. Like he shot 1 percent higher then Mitchell from 3, while shooting half the shoots. That's a big plus to Mitchell, not Sexton. I do think there is something to the comp though, I can totally see Sexton as a poor man's Mitchell. Put up 20 ppg, not much rebounding or assists though, and a pylon with whacky hair on D.


IngramsCeiling

Donovans better but is he worth giving up 3-5 picks + Agbaji? Not sure about this trade for Cleveland tbh.


Kdot32

If they’re a top 5 seed in the East are the picks really worth anything?


giannisfan2007

People always say this like the NBA isn’t constantly transient and teams go through entire contending/rebuilding cycles in 3-5 years. Two of those unprotected firsts are in 2027 and 2029 fwiw


IamSofakingRAW

They would have to have an unlikely collapse of multiple guys for this to not work out. They have 4 all stars (technically 3 but Mobley is Him) all under team control who are young. Pretty hard to figure in 6 years when the oldest is only 31 that they are a disaster. If anything any one of those guys can be flipped to recoup draft assets and/or players. With the TV deal coming, the amount they are paying Mitchell would be like half yearly what stars are about to make (think 60-70 mill a year)


IngramsCeiling

I mean that could still be pick 19, you can definitely get great players at that spot.


Moss_84

1. It’s impossible to predict the future 2. Opportunity cost. What other trade could these assets have been used for?


jakecoates

Top teams still need to get cheap rotation players, and one of those ways is with late firsts


Untchj

Pretty interesting. But make no mistake this says more about sexton being underrated than Mitchell being overrated. Mitchell is stamped idk why there’s a lil narrative of him being overrated. I will bet money that will be dismissed very quickly. I can’t stress enough, all it took was Devin Booker to get cp3 to change his narrative. Lavine to get Derozan and some role players. Here they messed around and gave Mitchell garland, Mobley, Allen, levert, love…he’s gonna feast


JoshFarc24

So what is the starting lineup for the Cavs look like? Do they start levert or okoro at small forward?


dat_waffle_boi

It’s probably Garland/Mitchell/Okoro/Mobley/Allen with Levert off the bench


JoshFarc24

Good 👍. I think Okoro is a nice 3 and D fit hopefully his shot improves. Levert a nice 6th man with Love also off the bench If he stays put.


tmackattak

Terrible trade for Cleveland


Objective_Celery_509

What these stats don't show is how superior sexton is on defense...


JoshFarc24

Sexton had Garland, Okoro, Love, JAllen Mitchel had Conley, Bogi, Clarkson and Gobert One might be thinking I'm saying this to show that Michelle had a better team but in reality I'm saying this because it just proved both were the first scoring options. Well the jazz were a better team it's still not the answer as to why Mitchell is not a superstar. In my opinion he's just not a first option he's a perfect second option and until people realize that I will say he's overrated.


CompetitiveTough4939

One leads a bunch of hasbend the other didn’t need to try since they weren’t contenders. This year one: one had more help but still too ball dominant, other had help and shooting form stay decent


HotdogIsaSandwitch

I think Jalen Brunson is more comparable to Sexton actually. Is Brunson worth 32 more mil over 4 years than Sexton? I doubt it. Also. Brunson is gonna be around 30 when his contract ends, Sexton will be 27.


aTROLLwithBlades

Bubble Mitchell is hard to forget. He and Jamal Murray were cracked. I'm impressed by Sexton's numbers here. I'm not sure how he is for chemistry but Mitchell didn't seem all that great for chemistry last year either. Hopefully both guys make friends and play well


sas-CT

Mitchell is overrated but he's still better than Sexton


TheMadManFiles

Hardly anybody has watched Sexton play in this thread, fucking hilarious


moons_a_skull

To further this, are we really going to act like the bubble playoffs and the empty arenas the following season can be taken at face value? Julius Randle was All-NBA 2nd team shooting 41% from deep with no fans, AD had a similar outlier shooting performance, Donovan scored 50 against a bad Nuggets defense congrats to him but it’s not the same as doing it in a normal postseason setting.


TheTrollisStrong

You do realize Mitchell did amazing in the playoffs outside of the bubble right? Last year was the only down year.


giannisfan2007

He was subpar in 2018 and 2019 as well. I don’t think his bubble stats should be tossed out the window, but i think his playoff stats are starting to regress more towards his true talent level/reg szn performance


TheTrollisStrong

His rookie and sophomore seasons? And he wasn't really subpar? https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/donovan-mitchell-career-playoff-stats


JoshFarc24

Point taken. Too late to delete my post. Haha


humgobumgo

This completely ignores multiple things, like one being that Spida was on a winning team while Sexton was not for his whole stint in Cleveland


hesipullupjimbo22

I think sexton can be very good as a 6th man but this is bad. You can’t just take stats without proper context


JoshFarc24

I've acknowledged I'm just trying to spark conversation and apologize if people read my Ozo as them being equal players. I did not state this anywhere. I simply posted a stat comparing the two.


dat_waffle_boi

If you don’t want people to think you think they’re equal maybe don’t say “these players are identical”


ahighkid

Nice. Don’t care still