Work takes 11 hours of my time, not just 8.

Work takes 11 hours of my time, not just 8.


If commute time had to be paid, work-from-home would be permanent.


When I worked for the government, if we had to commute to our perma-office then tough shit, but if we had to travel for work then the clock started as soon as we left our house to go to the airport. I never understood the difference.


Also, how does that work? People who live the farthest from the job get paid more than people that live close by? How do we know you are not intentionally taking the longer route? This is completely unintuitive. Edit: Since im getting a lot of responses about the exception to the rule. I'm talking about regular "office" work. Where you go from your home to the same workplace and back every day. Not when you have workplace injuries or when you work at different places every day.


Stipend for the average cost of travel calculated through employee data and fuel costs etc. Or the choice of free public transit pass to be paid in full by the employer. Just spit balling. Probably more components that would factor in to the equation


My dad works for the government in pollution testing and they actually offer their employees heavily discounted public transit passes for work and give out other incentives that are related to reducing your carbon footprint but I think it's pretty neat that they do that


Yeah, if this is the case, I drive my car for 20 minutes to a park where I park my bike, then ride my bike for 20 more minutes. The reason for normal commute time not being paid is because there are way too many variables to account for.


Maybe there could be a department to make sure payroll is not being defrauded and they could look out for anomalously long commutes, too. The department's *purpose* would be to ensure an accurate accounting but I don't know what you would call it.


The Department of Only Hiring Applicants from Adjacent Zip Codes.


Lmfao, this guy should work in government with this attitude. Lets make another department to make sure the Department of Only Hiring Applicants from Adjacent Zip Codes is complying with said regulations.


Obviously a department this critical would need multiple layers of oversight and accountability to maintain operational integrity.


It’s just the right thing to do


Or, hear me out, everybody gets the same 30-60 minute allotment payed before and after work each work day to cover travel time. You go outside that it's on you.


This is the only real solution.


How is that any different than just raising everyones wage by $X? And if it isnt what stops the employer from arguing that they are already paying everyone $X because the actual wage is $W-X for this job? This wont happen because presumably the cost of commuting is already baked into the wage when the employee accepts the job. If you dont think so consider if you would work for your same amount of money but add 1 hr to your commute. If no then you value that shorter commute to some degree. Now would you do it if they offered $12/hr more in wages? You might depending how you value your time but thats is the commute already being considered in the wage.


I would rather work less than get paid the equivalent more. Not everyone can do that but time is important and a lot of times, the extra money doesn't replace the lost time.


When I worked for an English conversation school in Japan, we were reimbursed for travel costs (not travel time unfortunately). For this they required proof of a monthly pass for the cheapest route between your home and the workplace. After a new train line opened, I was able to make a much faster and less crowded commute. The new train pass was rejected because the other route was still cheaper (I managed to get reimbursed the cheaper amount, but kept using the better route). Anyways, places with decent public transportation options like that can do that sort of thing. So totally useless anecdote for huge swaths of North America.


When I worked for Disneyland back in 2010, they actually gave us a bus pass that worked for all orange county bus lines, and we could use it whenever we wanted. We even got an extra $1 per day if we didn't use employee parking. Was a genuinely great perk. Fro.what I hear though, they've gotten rid of both the free pass and the $1 to not drive your own car to work.


Damn, that sounds like it was a pretty good deal. The train/bus passes are end-to-end _including_ stations between those points. So You might have a pass that goes Nerima to Shinagawa, and can get off and back on at any of the dozens of stations in between. Still not as good as an unlimited monthly pass which don't really exist afaik, though there are some things for travellers (passport stamp for entry date required) and for young people (juuhachikippu 十八きっぷ which is an "unlimited" pass for local trains only and has a number of conditions/odd quirks)


Or just pay everyone a flat 30 mins to help offset the burden of commuting and be done with it. Lets make lunches paid as well so we can spend 1 hour less at work without losing pay or benefits each day.


Just set a route finder using waize or Google maps for postcodes, I would assume that's easy scripting. And provide a 20% time on top.


You can literally pull Google maps, put in Point A and Point B and use that data about perceived optimal routes. If you live 10 mins away by car but 30 mins away by bike, you get reimbursed for... (insert formula) minutes of work. There is absolutely no need for an extra department lol


So I work in medical billing for a caregiving agency and we pay for travel time for our caregivers. When we assign a caregiver to a client we track the miles on a couple of different routes between the 2 houses and then pay the care giver $X per mile for the average miles we calculate between houses. If there's an extenuating circumstance that causes a caregiver to use a longer route (car wreck, construction, bridge out etc.) They can turn in proof of the obstruction (picture, police report etc) and the route they took instead and get paid for the mileage that was extra. If the caregiver isn't at home when they leave for their shift they're a little SOL if it's a longer commute, but then we're a little SOL if they find a way to make it shorter too. In the end it comes out a wash and it makes for happier employees overall.


One would assume when you accepted the job, you knew you would need to commute and accept that the commute is your time. If your job is sending you to a different location they accept that the commute is on the job time.


it gets weird for WFH though. If I need to head into the office after I start my day, the commute is paid. If I start my day there, it's not.


Yupp I moved closer to work during the pandemic - my soul feels way worse when I get home from going into the office vs. days I can stay home.


I'm literally on the way into the office because some fuckwit in HR forgot to tell our whole team a new person was going to be there. He has no access to anything and is apparently waiting at our department (which is usually pretty empty on Mondays). Can be damn sure in taking super long lunch


This is why I always start my day by checking my email at home.


We only accept it because it’s the system we know our whole lives. But when you stop and think about it that is time that needs to be compensated. It’s just been normalized that it’s on us. Same as company provided health insurance, no paid sick leave etc. It’s all things that only benefit the owner class and that’s why it’s never talked about. But now, post covid, it is being talked about and I am here for it. It’s long overdue.


So we add this of our list of demands to come back to work is what you're saying?




My friends who work in environmental remediation get paid for their drive time between home and their field sites, so it's far from unprecedented. They usually spend several days at the field site and the company pays for their hotels whole they're working.


Geez, even my job which is patient care at homes I don’t get paid between my first and last home for driving, so if I have one patient that’s 40 min away, I’ll drive for almost an hour and a half total with no payment for that time or mileage


You should get the difference between the first and last home and an office.


We should. But we won't. And we are slowly realizing that fact. And we are very, very pissed off.


Gotta track that mileage! Good luck!


One day of using Google Maps and bam. Mileage. So... Edit: Buzzed Bears and Blackhawks fan here. Did not mean to come off as a dick. Despite the fact that I came off as a dick.


Hold up, are you implying with that quote that Fight Club was somehow critical of capitalism? I was told it was something about how the Left^TM are weak snowflakes or something.


Fight club is my fav book and movie but talking about it with others is difficult because everyone interprets it according to their own personal values. It's definitely a favorite of the alt right and left in equal capacity. But many fail to see that Tyler is a hypocrite. He offers his followers a "red pill" to escape the capitalist "matrix" they are plugged into but his alternative system is equally if not more horrible. He encourages office workers to leave their boring jobs and demeaning bosses to ... Become a space monkey in the personality cult of a demented charismatic leader. Oh yeah and the book is full of homo erotic language and the author is gay. I think part of the greatness of fight club is that it does criticize capitalism and the purposelessness of modern mens' life while at the same time criticizing the "solutions" Tyler offers for these maladies. Also, don't mention that your favorite movie is called "Fight Club" to the middle aged ladies at your office ... They will give looks of disapproval ...


Yeah [I think that's illegal](https://shavitzlaw.com/road-rules-does-your-employer-have-to-pay-you-for-drive-time/#:~:text=Employees%20who%20drive%20from%20job,pay%20for%20regular%20hours%20worked.). What I've just found in a brief search says that your employer is *required* to pay for the hours driven between job sites. I mean if you're driving from one work site to another work site then they need to be paying you for that because you are working during that time. Driving home from work or vice versa is one thing but what you're describing is like if Amazon drivers didn't get paid for the time they drive between delivering packages. That's not only messed up, I think it's criminal. They should be paying for your gas and maintenance of your car. I sell solar and I get paid for the time I drive to people's homes and my work gives me a stipend for gas and they also pay for maintenance for my car. You should absolutely be getting paid or at the very least reimbursed for gas at the bare minimum.


YSK, Doordash, Instacart, Uber, Lyft, and the like, DO NOT pay "contractors" for time or milage between jobs.


Isn't that because you are an independent contractor, not an employee?


I believe so, which said companies lobbied *hard* for.


Payment from your home to work *might* be unreasonable an employer can't control your distance to work. It should be a crime to not pay you time plus mileage driving **between** work sites.


I'm pretty sure it's a violation of employment law not to pay btw work sites, probably a violation that often gets ignored nonetheless, but still a violation.


It's also like the easiest case for a Labor Attorney to win. If this is happening to you just find one and you'll get paid.


Employers have to pay you for miles driven for work purposes , not including to and from the office. It's part of the tax code. Either they pay you $0.56 per mile or you write it off on your taxes.


To and from the office is the majority of time driven for most people.


Agreed, this is fully reasonable.


They could pay for time up until a point. Obviously if you live 3 hours from work each direction no company would be willing to pay you 6 hours extra every day, but it wouldn’t be that unreasonable to just assume that each commute is some set period of time (let’s say 20 minutes) and then say that your work day starts 20 minutes before your official clock in time.


Time; yes. Milage; only if youre using your person vehicle.


That doesn’t seem legal, or it shouldn’t be if it is.


Yeah, unless she is paid some type of piece rate? I know some construction type companies get around paying for drive time by doing this, but this sounds like a more health care related job. EDIT: yes it seems very illegal, at least in the United States https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtools/tools-and-samples/hr-qa/pages/cms_014392.aspx


That's unfortunately pretty standard. It shouldn't be, but it's been that way a long time A trick I learned when I did a job like that was "I always start and end at the office". It fixes that problem


And if you get in an accident between the two jobs? You’re fucked. Not them.


I actually did earlier this year. My last drive of the day so I wasn’t being paid for it. Totaled my car. No help from work


If employers were liable for insurance during workdays (call offs vacation not included) insurance wouldn’t cost as much. Though people wouldn’t get payed as much either.


I have a buddy that works a similar job and has converted a van to be a mobile house so he can pocket the money he's given to pay for hotels.


My work recently announced a new office 2.5 hours away, in an area 3x more expensive, with no raises, with the intention of a hybrid model. Many people are refusing, after 1.5 years of success working remote, and several quit day of. Companies don't care, they're willing to sacrifice everything to control their employees.


Worked for a place that did this to get rid of some people (moved office farther away from some really annoying people)


That seems like a very expensive way of avoiding firing people.


Maybe it is in the US. In France, a country with powerful unions (but less so than Germany) it's such a hassle to fire people - you have to prove the person screwed up big time, or that the firm is going under - that it's quite a common ploy.


>they're willing to sacrifice everything Good, then better companies that care about their employees can replace them. I hope they sacrifice every last dollar.


Yeah but get ready for the counter demands of tracking your car so they can say you're wasting time and all that crap or for company busses to pick everyone up. Not that that would be terrible, would save wear on your car and gas money. I'm sure they'll manage to make it awful somehow.


as someone who has done company busses(shipyard during major busy period and not enough parking), its both amazing and shitty. amazing because you save a bunch of money by using less gas and changing insurance to just a pleasure vehicle instead of a commuter car. i also got to sleep for an hour on the shuttle on the way to work in the morning. also amazing because i was never late for work even when traffic got us there late, they would pay us for the 8hrs no matter if the bus got us there on time or not. shitty because a bunch of the times the guys want to go out for beers after work but the shuttle bus leaves 30 min after shift. also shitty because i lost out on some OT because i couldnt stay an hour or 2 late because the bus would be gone and paying a taxi would eat up most of the OT pay. edit: also shitty because if you signed up for the shuttle you werent allowed to park on the property. so if i had errands to run before or after work and had to take my truck, i had to park real far away from the shipyard and walk the rest of the way. this usually meant paying for parking as well. it sucks when it rains those days.


Not every job is an office job. That said I had a job doing wind farm construction, 1 hour drive from the nearest town. We all got to bill an hour commute


I work construction my boss doesn’t let me clock otw to work but once I’m there the clocks on til the time I get home so I get one way of the commute which is usually spent sat in traffic. That means free money for chilling in my car in traffic


Yeah not every job is an office job but remote work should be a perk of office jobs. Plus, less traffic during the day is a win even for non-office workers. I’m sure truck drivers of all kind saved time not driving during rush hours.


Win win?


Before COVID I would clock my time from when I woke up and started getting ready for work, any time I took a shit, any time i went for a walk, during my 2 way commute of a total of 1 hour. From the time I could clock out and not think about work I was on the clock. This isn’t abusing a system that some might think, it’s a fucking reality that workers are human and need breaks and time to ramp up and decompress. We are not robot. Now with everything being telework I am available for 2 hours every day after the core 6 hours. I’m productive as fuck during core hours and shit just gets done no questions asked. Both cases for me I’ve always got awards and praise regardless of the time I spent not working. No one gives a shit as long as your work gets done that you committed to.


This is why I’m resigning from my job Friday and starting a fully remote job next Monday. I’m in sales - we were fully operational and successful working from home. Current company is big on the bullshit ‘synergy of the energy on the sales floor’. Complete garbage, I’ll be getting 7 hours per week back in my life.


As far as I’m concerned, work from home IS permanent. I’ll quit my job long before I go back to the office 5 days a week. Those days are long gone.


All my recent work experience has been in call centers where we are on the phone and computer 90% of the time. I will not accept another in-office position unless they offer me enough money to afford a home in the suburbs and commute in a luxury vehicle. I previously earned $20 an hour but that rate was too low and far off from the actual value being provided. I would accept a similar remote position for $30 an hour or an in office position for $45 an hour. Edit: Chick-fil-A and Sonic are now paying around $20 an hour and I expect my pay rate to remain about 35 - 50% higher than fast food rates.


How do you guide LA tours from a call center?


With practice. That's why they deserve to be paid more.


Here in the Netherlands you get compensated by your commute time, even if you use public transport. It al depends on the place you work at, but if your work for the government it is even mandated by law you get compensated for it.


Or they would just reject applications from everyone outside a specific area.


Not really true... Japan pays you to commute. Most companies hate people working from home, even during our lock down last year it barely happened


Japanese work and culture is quite dissimilar in general to the majority Anglophonic countries, so it's difficult to make comparisons without bringing in wider context.


Here in Japan, most companies pay for all commuting costs by train or bus, and a good enough portion for commuting by car. Still work life balance is completely fooked.


Going to work from home has saved me so much time and money its ridiculous...


That would be pretty good for society. Lots of less traffic on the road. Less Carbon emissions. Less traffic accidents and deaths. Auto manufacturers would hate it but that’s about it.


I've had the privilege of being about to turn down jobs because the commute > 30 minutes. Even so, any commute is savage and adds at least an hour per day to my work-centric time. Being able to throw on a t-shirt and a pair of pants (if I'm feeling fancy) and start my day has been a sanity saver. WFH is far from perfect, but I plan to never return to an office.


I go to the office once or twice a month. Strategy sessions, meeting new staff, etc. But by no means do I ever intend to be in an office full time again.


You know what hurts? I was told when the pandemic started: **"No managers are allowed to WFH.** "But I don't have any reports... it's just in my title." **No exceptions, sorry.** Everyone above me worked from home. Just not me...


That's the lesson. You should have started looking last summer. Generally speaking, no employee will have more leverage than they do now. If you think you're being treated unfairly, not only is that true, but more importantly, now is your time to act.


I value my time, so I used to walk 10 minutes to work.


I value my time, so I used to bike 2 minutes to work.


I value my time, so I used to not go to work


Time is relative, so I value my relat…nevermi


Time is just a construct, so I'm in construction now.


Sorry to break the chain, but time is not a construct. Time literally, physically, moves slower or faster depending on your position. And this is a just a simple explanation. Time among other things in our life, are far more complex than we think they are.


Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so.


I'm the opposite. WFH was a sanity destroyer for me. Trying to run a communicative English language class was ok at first but became more and more difficult. The sensory issues I have haven't helped. 30 hours of leading zoom calls don't help Gearing up to be finally back in the classroom in the next few months


Teaching is one of the professions I can absolutely understand how this has been a huge challenge. I’m sure it’s not the only one that was made more difficult by WFH, but I imagine it was the one of the most negatively affected. Even being in training classes for 2-3 hours remotely is draining. I can’t even imagine 5-8 hours of it AND being the teacher.


There are definitely some jobs that do great from home, but some need to be in person. Some people work better in an office no matter the job as well. It'll be nice when it's not just assumed that you have to work in an office, so positions like yours can negotiate for better pay regarding your commute time.


I’ve always though a lunch hour should be paid for the same reason. I can’t exactly spend that 60 mins with my friends/family if I’m working from an office.


Or throw in a load of laundry


Love WFH where I can throw in loads of laundry or dishwasher in the middle of the day. Super helpful


Same, sometimes if I'm taking a 5 minute "stretch my legs" kind of break I'll go sweep my porch or something. It's a big stress reliever to do some chill housework chore and get it done while also taking a break.


It also adds even more free time. It’s not just the commute I save, but if I spend 30 minutes of my lunch doing chores at home (instead of just on Reddit at work waiting to clock back in) I get that time back later on as well. Super important for those that have kids.


I like to take my son on a bike ride around the block. I used to always go walk around the parking lot to get some air, but this is nicer


I hang out with my dogs in the backyard for a break. It's an awesome "reset button" for me and makes me so much more productive after the break.


This! Some ball time with my pup in the backyard in the sun always gets my mood and energy back up!


Nothing beats tidying the house on break. \*sad used to wfh noises\*


My 5 usually turns into 35 real quickly.


You got a big deck.


I'm a home cook. I'm no expert, but I cook the family meals. Being home and able to cook myself a fresh lunch every day during my hour lunch has been amazing. No more throwing left overs in the office microwave. Every day and freshly cooked lunch. I hate that I'm back in office now.


Lunch at home is the biggest benefit imo.


It’s the pooping at home for me


I stand corrected


I've just said screw it and now use meetings as time to clean house. I keep myself muted but will clean the kitchen and such. A few of my coworkers have found it amusing but so far no objections. Much better use of time in my opinion and a great work from home perk.


been telling people since the beginning that during my lunches and 15 min breaks throughout the day, I'll usually do something like vacuum, wash some dishes, do prep for dinner, wipe down some counters, etc. Then when I'm done with work for the day, not only do I just get to be home immediately, but I don't feel like I need to do any of that cleaning. I can just kick back with the family and hang out. It's amazing.


I'm so thankful my breaks are paid, my 8 hour workday is actually 8 hours minus a half and two tens, so I'm actually doing 7 hours but paid for 8.


Damn you’re lucky. My meals are unpaid, I can take anywhere between 30-90 minutes off the clock. Long lunches just make my day longer so I end up getting home late, therefore I just take 30. They pay me $41/hr on the clock with plenty of OT at 1.5x pay so it’s hard to complain.


What do you do that pays $41/hr?


Post history suggests unionized delivery driver.


Damn, I still have my ions.


Gotta burn those ions off if you wanna make any bucks bucko


Correct. UPS delivery driver. Teamsters local 174.


I know electricians and welders that make around that mark.


Also, a lot of people eat way faster and/or work through lunch


If you don't get paid for lunch definitely don't give them free labour during it.




I always hated an hour of it, too, and would have killed for this. Like I can eat and work, I don't wanna sit there for an hour of lunch break in the 'luxury' of my workplace. I want to be gone as soon as fucking possible, and the fact that we normalized it in all jobs really says a lot. Some days I just kinda look at how much toxic abuse we normalized and despair. We've got such a long way to go up, but it only feels like we're sinking down instead.


> I just don't take a lunch and leave a hour early. None of the places I've worked with unpaid lunch (30min or 60min) have allowed this without clearing it with a supervisor/manger first




What the fuck your lunch breaks are unpaid?


Yeah, typically, in the US at least, full time is 8 1/2 hour days with a 30 minute unpaid lunch and two paid 15 min breaks before and after lunch.


This is pretty common. Most places I’ve been at (even professional office 9-5 places) offer 2x 15 minute paid breaks and a 30 minute lunch unpaid officially. And then most will let you push the two together for an hour lunch, half of it is unpaid. It’s still bullshit and still needs to be changed.


Man I'm glad I have an office job where they dont super pay attention to time, as long as you're generally available and get work done. Cant imagine timing every break.


I hate it. It doesn't take me an hour to eat, and I don't want to just sit there dicking around on my phone because then I REALLY wont want to keep working after. So I'm just kinda held hostage for another hour of my day for no reason. Just let me eat real quick and get this shit over with so I can go home.


Ditto. Just let me have fifteen minutes to scarf down a sandwich and soda, then let me leave 45 minutes earlier!


If only. My commute used to be 65 miles each way. It was brutal. I'd leave my house at 6am and get home at 6pm. Was in bed 3 hours later to be up at 4:45am. I worked myself sick. And my boss would get mad if I left on time, even if my work was done. Unsurprisingly, he didn't get mad when the system went down at 3am and I logged in from home to fix it. I really wish the whole 'treat employees better' movement was around when I was still working.


Had to do something similar with a 100m commute each way. I think my lunch was spent sleeping in my car and the mileage I racked up was 1k miles a week. Travel wasn't even a part of my job :(


If that’s the case then 14hrs here 🙃




Some people get paid perdium in the construction world. I make normally 75 to 100 a day for it. Certain contracts also include "in and out" pay( so much to travel there and then so much to travel back home). Many workers refuse to even think about working without this "extra" pay.


\>perdium This is a common mistake to make, but just wanted to let you know it's per diem. It originates from latin, meaning "for each day" or "by the day".


Lol thx never knew the real spelling just thought fuck it that seems close enough.


yeah no worries, when i started in commercial new construction and traveled the first time I was like "wtf is purdium"


I've never received a check that said it on it....every check for that has been " expenses ". That or I just didn't pay any attention to it lol.




In my construction job we would get paid a certain amount of money per mile, I don’t remember the rate but it was between $0.15-$0.75.


It's a federally set rate (assuming US). This year it's around 55 cents (I used to know the exact number).


I've heard (but can't verify) you can actually deduct your mileage on your taxes depending on your setup, because even if you drive there every day for 3-4 years on a big project, it's considered a "temporary work location".


Strongly disagree for office work. We need to design our cities better, not incentivize long, inefficient commutes.


I mean, I guarantee that if commutes started costing big companies money, we would see efficient infrastructure put into place immediately. Hitting the bottom line is the only language that works for politics apparently.


You're assuming employers would have to keep or take employees with arbitrarily long commutes. I can't see any form of this where that would be the case, so the employers would almost certainly be putting pressure on employees to live closer to work. So it would be interesting to see the effects on housing, transportation, and office locations if commutes were a cost center for businesses in this way.


Jesus you gotta get a job closer to home.


I work 12.5 hour shifts and it's* a 40 minute one way drive to work. That's probably what they have too.


That makes more sense


12.5 hour shifts though?! Hope they're a nurse or something


The problem with this is that if commute was to be paid people living in peripheric areas would not get hired, and the real estate prices around economic areas would be even higher. Eventually, only the people who could afford to live close to their jobs would get the best jobs, while those who can't would be left with the leftovers. I'm not saying I disagree that commute should be paid, but I can't think of a system where we could have that without capitalism screwing us over another way. (Tho my country has a different system that doesn't pay per hour of work).


In Denmark we use the system that the longer your commute is (both by time and by distance) you get a larger portion of non-deductable pay, so it doesn’t incentivise employers to only hire nearby, i think it works decently here.


This is genius. Government-subsidised commute to work, effectively. Love it


What do you mean by non-deductable pay? That the employer can't deduct as much pay as a business expense?


I think it means that you get a tax write-off.


Bingo. This would especially be bad in America. As a European who has established an office in the US, I am mind-blown over the whole benefits system and how corporations have taken advantage of people through it. I've had applicants who do not care at all about pay, only benefits. The pay is for bills but the benefits are for their family. Adding this to the package would just be an excuse for corporations to lower wages even further and give artificial benefits.


My thoughts too - you'd just get fired because your commute is too much. Capitalism *always* finds a way to fuck over the workers


I know I'm in the wrong sub to say this but... it's not unreasonable for a company to say, "you get to choose where you live. We're not paying you extra for that." Like fuck, obviously I'd be thrilled to live three hours away in the woods and get paid to drive in and back every day! But what kind of bullshit is that for the company? They'd be paying nearly twice as much for a unit of work.


Presumably they could get around this by capping commute pay at a reasonable amount if time


Or forget the commute time, and roll the "extra money" you deserve for commuting into a higher hourly rate for your normal day hours. You just negotiate for the appropriate pay. No need to measure commute time.


Yeah, this. If I were considering a job with a longer commute, I'd only accept a relatively higher wage to make up for my lost time. My most recent job was 8 minutes from the office. I could deal with that. My brother drives 1.5 hours each way for his job. Nope, not for me, unless it was a helluva lot more money.


I understand. It's just extremely shitty for the worker, and I don't think many of us feel any compassion for a company.


We could just build our cities in a way that makes sense, rather than prioritizing the living standards of a few people with codified law.


Yeah, if only cities expanded following an actual plan. While that might be true for developed areas, a lot of urban expansions to what end up becoming peripheries, specially outside of developed countries, happen through the informal and often illegal occupations of land from people who have nowhere to live. These people certainly don't have the first clue about how to plan a neighborhood. And they are not targeted by companies because they don't have money to spend, so businesses don't really open their doors close to those neighborhoods, which mean less jobs. Most businesses in these starting places are small conveniences. It takes some decades for such neighborhood to grow, or even be recognized by law so they can get State protection. By the time that happens, poor people can no longer afford to be there and move to new areas. See the favelas and invasions in South America for example.


So bulldoze every city in the world and start from scratch?


So urban residents are a "few" people. And people living near businesses is somehow wrong?


Much easier said than done. I’ve had good friends who studied urban planning tell me that its anything but simple, and sometimes an idea built on good intentions results in the exact opposite result when implemented.


I used to live a seven minute walk from my place of work. I'd get security call outs at 4am. The first one I told them "fuck off, no". My manger lost it and says "you should be the only one to get called as you live so close, why do I have to do it?". Well Chuckles The Manager, regardless of me living nearby, I'm not paid for it. Even if I was, I'm not getting out of bed at 4am for an hour of minimum wage pay. I'm also not doing it because the company has straight up said that the reason why a staff member has to attend is because they only pay the security company to note alarms, but not attend. At the same time, I'm pretty pissed about the company boasting about record profits... Yeah, eat shit.


“chuckles the manager” lmao


That's when I'd be saying, sure I'll do it, but it's 2.5 x hourly rate with a minimum call out of 3 hours. I'd get up for an hour at 4am for 7.5 hours pay.


I feel terrible for my neighbor. Instead of telling her boss to fuck off, she tries to meet the demands of her work and works 18 hours every day, even weekends. She does not get overtime. She texted her boss asking about overtime and the boss said ‘you may work extra time, but you will not be paid for it.’ To me this says she just needs to clock out at 8 hours and if the project doesn’t get delivered on schedule, just blame the planners, as it is their fault for their piss poor planning.


Add on, what if it was an actual security situation?? It only takes one time it not being a rat running past the sensor or whatever for it to be life changing/ending.


I always think about it. I'm lucky and I just need half hour to arrive to work but I can imagine the people that lose 1 hour going and another to come back. If you add aswell the time that you need to change your clothes and have a shower it's ridiculous. It's eight hour shift but you lose the most part of your day finally


Good way to exclude people who live further away


This is (OP) an absurd sentiment. It would mean that the closer you lived to work, primarily in CBDs, the more likely you were to be hired. This would then make rent in cities skyrocket, and further alienate rural areas




Are you working for Amazon?




ironic. Really, just bordering on satire tbch.


Yes, and it’s absolutely hell too. Our buses are even worse because they lack consistency, and are occasionally not enough for the amount of people we have.


This definitely sounds like you should be paid


Ok, I'll take advice from someone named n-word lover


Clayton Biggsby's wife?


not once he found out, he was that dedicated to the cause.


You don't love nipples?


Do you really want a promising employer to discriminate against you based on how far from the business you live though? And it’s not like they wouldn’t know or they couldn’t ask because they’d have to pay you for that time. I agree that it should be payed, but I think it should just be a simple tax deduction. You report on a tax form that you live a certain distance from your employer and you get a deduction based on if you are full-time or part-time. No tracking mileage or clocking the time, just the cost of maintenance/gas/whatever else per mile multiplied by your distance and an average of 5 days a week 52 weeks a year. But I don’t wanna lose a good job in the city just because I live in the suburbs and they don’t wanna pay my 2 hour commute.


>Do you really want a promising employer to discriminate against you based on how far from the business you live Employers already do this.


Exactly my thoughts. Especially if you don’t drive. First thing they always ask me here in the UK is if I have a car license/my own car. I don’t drive, never needed because I always lived in big cities and used public transport, and as soon as I said that it was a “sorry I think it’s too far” even tho I was fine getting the bus etc. Very frustrating.


Yep! In my field, a lot of the employers won't hire you unless you live within 30 miles/minutes


why on earth would you even consider a 2 hour commute, that is literally 1 day per week just spent driving.


People that work in the trades, especially if they go from job site to job site, don't really have a lot of choice in where their next job might be.


I understand what your saying but it could be used as a gauge for other things like why are you living 2 hours from work? Are they paying you enough so you could live <30mins and it's just your choice to? Where I live a 2 hour commute is unheard of, not to mention probably not in the same country anymore, mines is a 15 min cycle (Netherlands). Could working from home be possible for you to reduce cost burdens for the company, if they invest in X and Y could your life be made better and you be more productive. Because I'm sure that 4 hours a day driving isnt great for your productivity.


Where do you live in the Netherlands? When I lived in NL, all of my colleagues commuted (45 min to 2.5h) as our office was in Amsterdam and none of us wanted to live in A’dam.




Yeah, that’s a great point. Personally, I don’t have a commute quite that long, but my job takes me driving around to multiple offices nearly an 1.5 hrs apart pretty frequently. But you’re absolutely right that oftentimes that kind of commute would be a sign that something else is wrong with the business. Like, taking a job in the city because it’s the only work that pays enough to afford rent even way out in the suburbs. That business definitely isn’t paying a living wage for the area. Same thing with outdated work from home strategies - if they don’t want to pay a living wage for the area, they should provide remote work for the sake of their business’s productivity. Of course, there are other reasons for a commute like that. I knew a girl in high school interested in marine biology that landed an internship at (arguably) the most prestigious aquarium/marine research center in the world. She drove 2.5 hours each way daily for almost a year. The pay was fine, but she was living with her parents. Other people simply have families that they prefer to raise in the suburbs or they have found better job further from their home and don’t want to sell their home or move their kids. In the US, a 2 hour commute isn’t particularly common, but it’s definitely not particularly uncommon, especially in metropolitan centers like Los Angeles or NYC. Many people take the ferry from NJ to NYC with a commute time of like 2.5-3 hours.




If that was the case then jobs would only hire people that live close and not far. I think it’s a great idea but it would be poorly executed.