T O P

This was signed off on by a licensed physician

This was signed off on by a licensed physician

EnderDelphox

*Sorts by controversial* Edit: Hehehehe


One-Bread36

Well I regret taking your advice. I'm laughing at these people, but also dying on the inside.


I_quote_alot

Jesus. Don't.


Tygiuu

Oh God, you weren't kidding.


ApertureNext

That's not healty.


Tuck_Pock

This whole thread is a shitshow


NYC_hydra

> self sufficiency That's literally a trait every human needs to have to be a functional adult.


Giga_squid

Exactly


[deleted]

I think the self-sufficiency point means being *too* independent, if that makes any sense. Like refusing all help even when definitely needed because it makes you feel weak. That is absolutely something I see a lot of people feel and do because they don't want to seem foolish or weak compared to their peers.


Triton12streaming

I feel like Walt refusing his old friend paying for his cancer treatment in Breaking Bad is a good example of this


Click_Real

Also remember you need a number of the litsted traits together to determine a diagnosis (I know this isn't a diagnosis, see it as a simili). Many diagnoses include common personality traits as symtoms, if they happen to be very common in the diagnosed ppl. Having one of the listed traits alone isn't enough to define a behaviour/diagnosis.


slavicslothe

It's almost like the rest of the article does this really well: https://www.healthline.com/health/toxic-masculinity#health-effects I wonder why only 5% of it was posted 🤔


ChuckFarkley

There is no diagnosis of “Toxic Masculinity.”


Click_Real

Yes you are right, but whatever you call it - it shouldn't be defined by one trait alone. (I edited my comment now, thx)


Eirein

That's why they said "I know this isn't a diagnosis"


slavicslothe

It's a form of ideological extremism fueled by social pressures that most people can't reasonably achieve. They just overcompensate.


Nuvenor

That's not self sufficiency that's self destruction. Know the difference folks


[deleted]

No that's what they meant: being self-sufficient is fine, but being so self-sufficient to the point where you refuse help and demand to always do everything on your own is a problem.


Fierramos69

Having a quality to the point that it’s extreme and abusive is always bad. With this logic the list could include everything, every single quality can be turned into a bad thing if you make it do. Even kindness. Trying to justify this list is sad honestly…


rustyshackleford193

This isn't about an article of all the things that can be bad. This is about what collection of traits are common in toxic masculinity


Fierramos69

I re-read it an you are right, I poorly translated it at first. But the first sentence lead to doubt for non-native speaker…


thebossman12574

You vocalize my thoughts better than I could have.


FurryFlurry

..... You're gonna argue that someone somewhere's toxic masculinity manifests as overwhelming, smothering kindness? Who on Earth does this describe?


[deleted]

Yes this is true, but these are traits they stereotypically force on men in the past, so it's more or less associated with the concept of toxic masculinity.


thebossman12574

"Too independent" Some people are independent, kinda sad it's associated with men though.


rustyshackleford193

It literally says it can be associated with anyone


Mister_Tit

I think each bullet point was suppose to be taken in conjunction with each other in order to demonstrate a bigger picture.


TrevastyPlague

That sounds like some TOXIC MASCULINITY


pranamya2005

I think the physician means to take it to an extreme level


Spooms2010

Read it in context. It alludes to not showing vulnerability by asking for help either in a relationship or any other context where you could possibly taken advantage of. Geddit now…?


wakingup_withwolves

they need to word it better. there’s obviously nothing wrong with self-sufficiency. i think what they’re trying to say is that it’s bad if taken to an extreme. like not accepting help and advice from others, which if taken too far crosses into the realm of thinking you’re always right and the only person who can do something right. i *think* that’s what they’re trying to say.


Practically_

Some men, myself included, have conditioned ourselves to never ask for help. Even with simple things. That’s certainly a toxic trait.


Grognak_the_Orc

It says these are common themes not that everything on the list is bad. Self sufficiency makes me think of dudes who get into an accident with a sawzall, rub some dirt in it and say "I don't need me no dang hospital"


Orodia

Anything in high enough quantity is a poison.


Sheep_Overlord

Themes yo


Illigard

It should say "excessive self-sufficiency" as anyone relatedly trained in psychology or frankly any science degree should have learned how to use words exactly for anything published. Even then it's doubtful as to whether it should be included in any form.


Neutronova

not in this day and age, keep em dumb and weak and the masses are easier to control.


SendMeRobotFeetPics

Yeah except the point is that they take that concept to an extreme and use it as a means/justification to shit on others


False-Help-3031

That is not what stoicism is


milkshakakhan

it’s been coopted out of philosophy, just like “epicurean”. Most people are gonna think it’s someone who represses their feelings. But I’m going to guess that the poor intern who wrote this out definitely is a Zeno of Citium fanboy.


SyntaxRex

I highly doubt the author of that piece has any knowledge of Stoic... or any kind of philosophy for that matter.


jcamdenlane

Jesus. Read the whole page. Common traits isn’t a dsm definition. Sentence before even says the traits aren’t inherently good or bad.


Googletube6

this is taken out of context the rest of the article explains that masculinity is ok but it can become toxic due to social norms and this list was meant to show that


ViceGeography

You mean Reddit again took a post about toxic masculinity out of context to screech about nonexistent misandry? I'm shocked! Shocked!


VanilaCherry

Welcome to the internet.


itsonehunnid

Too much of a good thing can be toxic, which is what I'm guessing this thing is trying to show. On the other hand, this is likely a snapshot of one part of the whole article, so OP might not be showing everything. 4 and 6 are the only ones where problems arise. Everything else is not inherently toxic. And I don't think anyone can prove the others are inherently toxic. In any case, here is a very short list of things that aren't inherently toxic but can be toxic when overdone. - Drinking too much water - Emotional expression (being prone to unchecked emotional outbursts of any sort - whether anger, fits of crying/etc) - Talking (Verbal diarrhoea/loquaciousness)


fruhest

Point number 2 seems pretty toxic to me. Displaying aggression as part of your personality, rather than as a direct response to a few, very specific scenarios, is inherently toxic and puts yourself and people around you in unnecesary stress and danger


rustyshackleford193

Y'all suffer from lack of reading comprehension It only says toxic masculinity traits includes THEMES OF THE FOLLOWING Nowhere does this list imply that self sufficiency is toxic. Example: some guy is struggling with mental health problems, but will be ridiculed for seeking help 'because a real man solves his own problems, shuts up and works etc' that ticks point 1,3,5 and 6 and is a clear case of toxic masculinity. Nobody is saying any of those topics are bad, but it's an index of topics often held in undisputable high regard by folks who are toxic. Quit going REEEEEEEE


Prize_Connection8534

People will post "men have feelings too :(" on unpopularopinion and pat each other on the back about how unfair society is, but the second you try and explain that that's LITERALLY what toxic masculinity is they go absolutely wild. No interest in self reflection, just self pity.


SanctuaryMoon

Can't fantasize about being a tragic hero martyr if you're out there actually fixing your problems


Googletube6

yeah and the rest of the article explains that these are mostly fine in moderation but can be taken to the extreme but no op used this as bait to lead people further down the "feminist hate men" route


ViceGeography

There's a lot of insecure man children these days who are seemingly desperate to prove they're oppressed I can't tell if they're just wilfully ignorant and misled or it's a deliberate tactic to shut down women's issues


badgersprite

The term toxic masculinity was literally invented by men’s movements to describe their own experiences about the double standards and pressures placed upon them by society about being men. Toxic masculinity isn’t some feminist attack on manhood this term being in circulation is literally the result of men’s movements talking about their own experiences about the destructive way society treats men.


Malcolm1276

>The term toxic masculinity was literally invented by men’s movements to describe I've seen this posted a few times in this thread chain and I do have a small contention. Who invented the term and it's original use does not affect the way the term has been co-opted by today's feminist to describe something other than what it was originally defined as. Words don't have intrinsic meanings, they have uses, and if the word is being used in a different fashion than what it was in the past, you can't then claim that it means what it used to. Sure, we agree, feminist didn't invent that word. That doesn't mean they didn't change it's use to suit their own narrative now. Those are two separate issues.


Bigtimelowlife

How was it changed?


FurryFlurry

"Includes themes of" I feel like I'm the only person here who's reading that and not being hugely uncharitable here. It's clearly not saying "Toxically masculine people are self-sufficient." It's saying "Toxically masculine people are obsessed with self-sufficiency." e.g. Not asking for help, doing the same thing over and over even if it's wrong or harder because they wanna do it "their way," an unwillingness to listen or learn, etc. It's saying they're obsessed with these themes. Not that they embody them. Are you people serious? Embarrassed to be associated with y'all sometimes. You can't even fkn read.


katkeransuloinen

Toxic masculinity is when these are traits expected of men and men who don't display them are shamed for it and seen as feminine. The phrasing in the screenshot is just bad.


SnazzBat

I like this deduction. It’s not saying men who do this have toxic masculinity. It’s saying that these expectations of men are toxic.


katkeransuloinen

Exactly. That's what toxic masculinity means, but it's often misinterpreted. It's also the idea that "masculinity is strong and femininity is weak, so women are weak and men who are 'feminine' are weak and unmanly". In this way, toxic masculinity impacts both men and women, as femininity is viewed as a negative trait in both men and women. The most common example of this is when a boy being told something like "what are you, a girl?" when he cries, teaching him both that boys shouldn't express their emotions and that being "like a girl" is a bad thing.


fruhest

Uhhh... Yeah? This list seems spot on to me. It includes themes of these things, as in toxic masculinity takes these things and push them too far. The theme of self sufficiency --> "its unmanly to ask for help" The theme of stocism --> "a man never cries" Like, the whole concept of toxic masculinity is to drag the concept of traditional masculinity to a toxic extreme


ownthelibs69

Uh, ye, because it's real? Hahahaha


SuggestiveMaterial

Do you think Toxic Masculinity doesn't exist?


Jwishaw

dont try n talk about shit like this on reddit


SuggestiveMaterial

Why not? I'm not the one who put this on reddit.


Jwishaw

sorry i meant like dont try n talk about it here bc most ppl on this site refuse to admit that they're everything on this list


themainaccountofyeet

Both toxic masculinity and toxic femininity exist, but they are both in desperate need of a name change, the names that they currently have makes them seem like they're an attack on all of masculinity and all of femininity.


badgersprite

For the record men’s movements invented the term toxic masculinity. It wasn’t invented by feminists. Men literally invented this term to talk about their own experiences and their own problems about how the culture and double standards around being men negatively affected them and then other reactionary men who never did any research turned around to complain about how they were being attacked by feminists somehow because of this term invented by men.


Unacceptablehoney

Oh my god not sure how I didn’t know this but it’s so incredibly fitting of modern MRAs and I love it. Thank you for enlightening me!


R1pY0u

It originated from the Mythopoetic Men's movement which was explicitly pro-feminist. So yeah, it was in fact invented by feminists, just male ones, which MRAs hate.


SuggestiveMaterial

What would you recommend they be called? And why?


a-manic-ferret

I really don't agree on the naming front. I think "toxic masculinity" and "toxic femininity" both sound like toxic forms/methods of masculinity and femininity respectively. I think putting the descriptor of "toxic" in front of it absolutely distinguishes it from masculinity or femininity altogether. Neither has ever read as an attack to me.


the6thistari

"Toxic Masculinity: What It Is and How to Address It" https://www.healthline.com/health/toxic-masculinity#causes That's the link to the actual article for anybody who wants to read the full thing instead of a screenshot of a list used as part of the intro.


Ok_Chemical_3349

This isn't "awful", maybe just a bit unclear with their terminology. ​ (BTW triggered neo cons are supposed to use r/LouderWithCrowder, you'd definitely get a lot of responses there)


uwu_bb666

It was written up because therapists actually help people unpack/deal with toxic masculinity and it’s effects. Not because they’re following an agenda, but because toxic masculinity can be damaging to mental health. It’s weird to see it written in such a clinical way, but it’s not necessarily awful. Self sufficiency shouldn’t be on there though.


oskarvdv

I’m pretty much entirely with you except the self sufficiency thing but it’s kind of a perspective thing. I think it’s referring to when people don’t have any social support group, and refuse to ask for help with personal problems which is bad, but it’s phrased super poorly so I can understand how you see it differently


BurlyJoesBudgetEnema

ITT Jordan Peterson's teenage fans fans lose their shit


slavicslothe

Yay another anti-intellectual who trusts YouTube pundits over entire fields of study that have identified hegamonic and toxic masculinity as a phenomenon that is strongly correlated to depression, suicide, rape and sexual assault of men and women, and violent crime. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7599123/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32049263/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6728685/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7444121/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6016395/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4768593/ You even misrepresented the article: https://www.healthline.com/health/toxic-masculinity It clarifies everything. I'd call you bad faith but I'm guessing you just found the screenshot lying around 'somewhere else' and didn't read the article or the research it cites. Learn to use Google instead of getting triggered by screen grabs on social media.


ilovepuscifer

Where is the lie?


cravingcrackers

what exactly are you suggesting here? that toxic masculinity doesn't exist? genuine question.


mr_lakeshow

the real cringe is reading the insecure, offended dudes in the comments


_Only_Connect_

I fail to see what's wrong with this.


oskarvdv

It’s pretty bare bones because it doesn’t explain why these things happen but like yeah, this is pretty accurate


bob_fossill

Ironically some of the replies here display these traits whilst complaining about them lol


ScottishRiteFree

With a little more explanation, all of this would make plenty of sense. Nothing here is awful. This is all true.


cunt_223

I would have to disagree with you, I think they have decent points


SuaFata

Username checks out


[deleted]

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PrateTrain

They mean refusing to ask for help.


oskarvdv

I would say so. Many men are near incapable of displaying emotion or being outwardly vulnerable, which is really bad for someone’s mental health. And for self diffidence, of cours everyone should have some degree of self sufficiency, it’s often the case that men feel the need to be entirely unrepentant, when another thing everyone needs is a social support structure. The one issue of the article is it doesn’t explain these issues further, but since we are only seeing some of it then who knows maybe it does if you just scroll down further


freeski919

OP is a fragile little snowflake.


Ok_Chemical_3349

Facts, the people in this thread are mentally incapable of extrapolating the article beyond what they immediately think it means


oskarvdv

Yeah true, some people really can’t infer anything, nor accept that a mind set can be unhealthy


milkshakakhan

Guys, self sufficiency is on here, probably because people have no idea how to ask for help for fear of embarrassment by looking weak.


godsavethegene

The real /s men read this, get offended, and dare anyone in their immediate vicinity to call them toxic if they want a broken nose.


juststalking83

According to this my wife, sisters, and mother all suffer from toxic masculinity.


hashn

Well it does say anyone can suffer from it, not just men. So the term is pretty independent from gender. In fact we should probably call it toxic femininity for a while, just to underline the point.


oskarvdv

But it’s not? The reason why it’s called toxic masculinity, is because it’s essentially all the issues male gender roles create. It’s like how being compassionate isn’t a gendered thing, but due to social circumstance, many people see it as a feminine trait


My_Immortal_Flesh

Lol this is absolutely rubbish, and it’s kind of hilarious 🤣 I don’t think these people actually know what Toxic Masculinity is. Hell, I don’t think they’ve ever actually met someone like that… these are all uneducated guesses lol The “Self Sufficiency” on cracks me up so much!


oskarvdv

Idk this is pretty accurate in my eyes. The main problem is it doesn’t explain the points well enough, which is an issue. But with the self diffidence one I couldn’t agree more. Of course everyone should have some degree of self sufficiency, it’s often the case that men feel the need to be entirely unrepentant, when another thing everyone needs is a social support structure.


Original_Jury5825

Totally agree, not sure why there are so many people being reactionary in this thread, they are obviously not going into enough detail but all of these traits are things that are exacerbated by toxic masculinity.


oskarvdv

Yeah. Also a lot of people seem to think that toxic masculinity means that men are toxic to others??? Like maybe they should actually read about anything to do with toxic masculinity. It’s not people saying “boys are bad and mean!” It’s people worrying about the mental health of half of the population


simpleaussieguy

My ex wife and her friends think men having beards and many other stupid things is "toxic masculinity". I have reached the point where I stop listening when people talk about it.


Roland_Child

If you think it's the beard, you're probably pretty toxic, amigo.


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RyajinZero

I'm not so sure we need to even go there at all. We probably agree that it isn't sex specific. Some people are just more morally bankrupt than others.


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Original_Jury5825

Toxic masculinity is just a term to describe the unique difficulties some men face under patriarchy and the behaviours they exhibit as a result of them. It is individual behaviour, but with a pattern of influences, just because someone's done something, we wouldn't just chalk it up to individual behaviour, we would surely examine all the possible causes and influences?


RyajinZero

Yeah, I hear you.


oskarvdv

I wouldn’t disagree with you, but toxic masculinity is far worse. The amount of damage it does to guys is awful.


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smemilysmems

toxic masculinity doesn't mean that being male or masculine is toxic if you want to learn what toxic masculinity really means this might help and you may even find yourself agreeing with it: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/22/us/toxic-masculinity.html


oskarvdv

Toxic masculinity isn’t that being a man is toxic. It’s the expectations and roles you have to fulfil that society expects from you as a guy, and they are unhealthy for you. All gender roles are bad, it’s just that the ones for men are exceptionally bad


blackbeard_teach1

Baby The damages caused by masculinity can be measured. The damages caused by femininity is usually unseen on the outside.


tacticooluser

Self sufficiency. Yes I must be toxic because I can take care of myself like an adult


oskarvdv

I think it just means that everyone should have some degree of self sufficiency, but it’s often the case that men feel the need to be entirely unrepentant, when another thing everyone needs is a social support structure. It’s bad that it doesn’t explain it but I am pretty confident that’s the point it’s making


Prize_Connection8534

WebMD says that brain tumour symptoms include headaches. Most people older than 10 understand that it's not saying headache = brain tumour, it's saying excessive headaches combined with other symptoms could hint towards a brain tumour. Something tells me you already know that and you're just pretending to be ignorant so you can get offended though. Weird choice.


sockpuppetkc

Who takes care of the "non-toxic" people, I wonder...? Somebody's making all this bullshit up as they go.


xxterrorxx85

So I’m “Toxic” if I choose not to display emotion? Or if I am “self sufficient”. I’m not gonna cry in public and ask a bunch of people for help, just to fit in this disgusting ideology.


Mama_Mush

Displaying emotion doesn't have to be in public, it can be in front of friends/family and doesn't have to be tears. There are men who think laughter is unmanly. Self sufficiency is great but refusal to accept any help from anyone isn't healthy.


xxterrorxx85

There is nothing wrong with keeping emotions to yourself. This doesn’t make you toxic. It doesn’t say not accepting help from anyone. It say self sufficiency, and there is also nothing wrong with that.


Mama_Mush

Taking any trait to an extreme and a large combo of the traits is what makes them toxic. Just like the other side of the coin, women are traditionally the nurturers, more openly emotional and more socially cooperative, however any of those things taken to extremes can become a smothering, emotionally unstable mess with no boundaries. There isn't a thing wrong with keeping emotions to one's self, however if it means that the person ends up commiting suicide due to having no emotional outlet then that is toxic or if the emotion escapes in unhealthy ways like substance abuse. Self sufficiency is great and often laudable but taking it to any extreme isn't healthy.


Aaawkward

> There is nothing wrong with keeping emotions to yourself. It becomes toxic if it's *all* you do with your emotions. And it'll affect not only your own mental well being but also that of those who are near you. (general you, not specifically you).


rustyshackleford193

Holy fuck you have the intelligence of a grade schooler


raphanum

This is ridiculous.


oskarvdv

Great argument


Mama_Mush

It is ridiculous that some men were raised into absurdly rigid gender roles that stunt them and damage their relationships. It's not good for the person or society.


Googletube6

op didn't show context in the article the rest of the article explains that these on their own are fine but can lead to toxic masculinity if taken to the extreme which is common do to us pushing this on young boys who are young and dumb and take it to the extreme and then just kinda think it's normal


WheatGerm42

lol. no. as this article pretty clearly outlines, these are just evidentiary themes that suggest a deeper problem. it’s totally possible to be unemotional and self sufficient without it being an issue. a better way to think about this is to consider whether these traits are truly a choice for you, or if they feel prescribed. a lot of men, for example, do actually want to publicly display emotion, but feel like they can’t because it would be embarrassing or emasculating. that’s the effect of toxic masculinity — sometimes our attachment to societally prescribed gender roles limits us from doing what we really want to do. if anything, toxic masculinity harms men just as much (if not more, in some ways) than it harms women. it’s not an “ideology,” it’s a pretty well-documented psychological phenomenon, and there’s really no reason to be freaked out by it.


uhimamouseduh

I don’t think it’s saying that if you have one of these traits you suffer from toxic masculinity. I think it’s just saying that combined these all are common traits of someone with toxic masculinity. So no, you’re not toxic if you chose mot to show emotion. But if you chose not to show emotion, are aggressive, discriminate against anyone who’s not male, and are emotionally insensitive to others, then there’s a chance you could be suffering from toxic masculinity


oskarvdv

Well first off, it’s not you being toxic, it’s a toxic mindset. And yeah kinda. Not being open with displaying your emotions is just worse for your mental health, as well as feeling the need to refuse to ask for help.


potato_radioactive

Why are they booing you? You're right!


Naeron1

No she is not


potato_radioactive

Ok, whatever. I hope all of you that think toxic masculinity isn't a thing and/or that it is OK to not feel emotions are comfortable in this mindset (aka I hope you guys don't follow this just because it is expected of you). Mainly, I hope y'all are happy in your lives, and that you are not fooling yourselves.


Naeron1

You know, uhhhm, not everyone HAS to carry their feelings on the outside. If you decide to do so and it does work well for you that is nice. But I actually feel worse after doing that. My emotions are for me alone, and that doesnt mean it is unhealthy to handle it like that, because it has always worked out perfectly fine for me.


raphanum

This has some dystopian level vibes.


CabinetBrilliant8595

And what’s wrong with being self sufficient?


vincentvegagoeswest

People need people. We don’t live in a vacuum. Denying this is obviously unhealthy.


CabinetBrilliant8595

Yes but some ppl lean on others too much, and most ppl let you down….. everyone should have the skills to rely on themselves only


vincentvegagoeswest

Hence “toxic.” Total self-sufficiency is an extreme, as is total dependence. Both are psychologically unhealthy.


CAFE-IMP

Welp looks like I have toxic Masculinity watch out for me people


oskarvdv

You realise it’s toxic to you, rather than the people around you right?


CAFE-IMP

You realize I was using sarcasm, right?


oskarvdv

Honestly I can’t tell in this comment section, sorry


OkDokey87

The irony is, when feminism started it was because of things like this, where men would tell women how to think and act. If they didn’t behave like a “Lady” they were societal outcasts. Now, in 2021 it’s completely flipped. We have articles now telling Men how they should think and act based on how masculine they are? Essentially people are trying to redefine traits what they don’t like about Men and if the Men don’t comply they are condemned for it.


fruhest

The term 'toxic masculinity' was coined by men, to easier express how societal pressure is ruining many men's mental health. The difference between masculinity and toxic masculinity is to what extent the traits are displayed and pushed. Self-sufficiency is, at a healthy level, a good masculine trait. The toxic version of it would be men not being able to ask for help at all, ever, for fear of being viewed as weak or unmanly. Stoicism is, at a healthy level, a good masculine trait. The toxic version of it would be the notion of "men don't cry", or where men find themselves being unable or scared to show their emotions at all, to anyone, bottling them up. This is partly why men's suicide rates are so high, because they cannot discuss or even admit their depression to anyone out of societal pressure to be "manly"


Negative-Passage-741

Most of this seems to fit


saltire429

>stoicism, or not displaying emotion These are two wildly different things.


BurlyJoesBudgetEnema

I don't think they're talking about the philosophical school of thought


Difficult-Field3054

Traits that enable success cannot be labeled "toxic" if we hold any hope for our culture to survive.


Mama_Mush

The traits taken to extremes will destroy society. Humans have survived so well as a species by being social and cooperative.


Difficult-Field3054

Nah, I disagree. Having over the top presentation of these traits is better suited to survival, than having little to no presentation of these traits. But I do agree that there is a necessary medium.


oskarvdv

Necessary for survival? [It’s](https://www3.paho.org/hq/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=15599:1-in-5-men-will-not-reach-the-age-of-50-in-the-americas-due-to-issues-relating-to-toxic-masculinity&Itemid=1926&lang=en) literally killing men off.


Mama_Mush

It may lead to survival of the individual but isn't great for the species.


DiogenesOfDope

Unless thier success causes alot of problems for other people by how they achieve it


Giga_squid

I agree. Making men un masculine will destroy our society


SuaFata

You’ve been diagnosed as like,literally toxic


Lon3wolf1997

toxic masculinity is literally just insecurity though. everyone has insecurities about specific features of themselves.


oskarvdv

I think that’s partly true, but it’s mostly just gender roles. People expect men to be big, tough, the breadwinners, etc, etc. But that mindset isn’t healthy, and it causes problems


Sides_xoxo

Self sufficiency is the only thing I can see that could be seen as weird here. Everything else listed here is toxic as fuck.


Sensitive_Peace_4070

As someone who appreciates manly and tough things while also maintaining emotional stability and softness, I find this offensive in so many levels. These aren’t pathological traits, minus the last on the list and heterosexism. But they do not form an aggregate trait cluster for which we can keep the name “toxic masculinity”. The people pushing the popular use of this term should be more concerned about the (male and female) occurrence of dark triad traits and cultures, which are incredibly destructive in the environments of those who possess the traits. Toxic masculinity is missing the point. We already know what the most fucked up human traits are. There’s tons of awesome research on it. Jesus.


oskarvdv

How is toxic masculinity missing the point? A lot of people expect men to be a certain way, including most men, and it’s an impossible goal which just causes suffering and unhealthy mindsets.


Sensitive_Peace_4070

What is the goal of toxic masculinity if not the manifestation of the traits/behaviors above in the initial post? I think the term gives the impression that these behaviors that these behaviors are only toxic in men, due to the exclusively gendered nature of the expression toxic masculinity.


JJReesey

Sounds like op might be insecure about their toxic masculinity. Get bent loser.


Burntheworld27

this is gay


TheBanzerker

If Self-Sufficiency is a side effect… sign me up.


vox21122112

So common traits of toxic masculinity is literally...being a human?


oceanbreeze88

Exactly.. they don’t want you to be a human anymore it seems 😂 just accept their propaganda bullshit


chitownphishead

with the bullshit on display here, im surprised "mental stability" isn't on the list. seems like unless you're a crybaby cuck bitch you're "toxic".


yellowkingofhastur

It was nice knowing you guys, I have to go back to my planet


fourtunatelyfamiliar

literally what’s wrong with this


magikarpjones

Agreed. Toxic masculinity is awful 😢


oskarvdv

How tf are you being downvoted


magikarpjones

Buncha baby boy men’s rights dudes, I’m sure.


Chaos_Daddy3

Where's the definition and analysis for "toxic femininity" then?🤔


oskarvdv

It’s one screen shot of an article about toxic masculinity and you expect toxic femininity to be included? Ignoring how toxic masculinity is a really bad problem, while toxic femininity is barely a thing?


BoogieWoogieTime2

Why is that men can’t prioritize their own well being and mental health without somehow dragging women into it? And then men say we don’t care about their Mental health and their high suicide rates. Pick a narrative and stick to it


magikarpjones

I don’t know, but I bet you could google that 🤷‍♂️


Chaos_Daddy3

"Toxic femininity is when one works to the benefit of others but to the detriment of themselves. It can appear as forms of depression, exhaustion, or wildly illogical solutions to complex problems.” Ya that's a HUGE inconsistent disconnect between the two lol


magikarpjones

I’m not sure why you’re telling me this lol You’re the one who asked, now you know. Good job googling, I guess?


Chaos_Daddy3

"not displaying emotion", then why is it called "resting B*tch face"?🤔


Giga_squid

Well I will continue to be myself. Idc if people think it’s toxic masculinity.


BoogieWoogieTime2

That’s an awfully stupid way to remain stagnant in self development. If you want to remain a child forever then go ahead but I don’t reccomend behaving this way forever.


raphanum

lol what


thebossman12574

Beilive it or not, people not justifying your front by being themselves isn't a "stagnation in character development" If you want a reaction, earn it.


milkshakakhan

I think it’s referring to the inability of some men to cry in public, because they’ll look week. My father, for example, won’t do anything to make himself look in anyway feminine, and it was a pain in the ass growing up with him, because I’m a grown man who cries at shampoo commercials.


rnike879

Do you think crying at a commercial is a positive trait?


Iglovelli

Sounds to me that your father is just a normal fella and you might be mentally unstable


JamesDCooper

Now that's toxic masculinity


PineSnurf

The reason that a lot of men find it hard to cry in public is because they’ve been conditioned to be stoic for that last millennia. It’s only now that the world is starting to change, but instead of helping men realise that they don’t have to be strong or manly all the time, the world is calling them sexists and toxic and not giving them the chance to fix themselves.


blowthepoke

According to that, my self sufficient & tough Grandma had toxic masculinity..


EffectiveMinute4625

This has been written by an incel


vincentvegagoeswest

And half the commenters support it


accessgranted69

Left wing propaganda aimed at discriminating against those who don't rely on the state/value virtue signalling.


vincentvegagoeswest

Great incel buzzword selection.


oceanbreeze88

Exactly. Trying the feminize men so in order to weaken and control..


accessgranted69

Basically just trying to engineer us into a species which holds state power as absolute and happily snitches on others to the state. Sounds alot like China.


oceanbreeze88

💯 the scary part is how many people don’t see it.. social credit scores incoming


Revolutionary-Tree18

Stoicism: Marcus Aurelius FTW


Lazarus_Steel

Bingo! - i have the whole set!.....what do i win?