T O P
Snapnall

The frigates each have a compliment of 4 Pelicans and 2 Longsword fighters; making a total of 12 Pelicans and 6 Longswords. A single ISD has a compliment of around 72 TIE fighters. Even a boarding action would be virtually impossible as an ISD has a nearly 10,000 Stormtroopers on board. The three UNSC frigates would have, combined, around 675 marines. I think the deciding factor would be the shields. The frigates have no shields and standard projectile weapons, while the ISD has powerful shields and laser weaponry. The battle depends largely on how many MAC rounds the ISD's shields can absorb. We know Convenant ships can be brought down with 2-3 MAC rounds.


Millworkson2008

Now who would win a Spartan or 10,000 stormtroopers, probably the Spartan


James_099

A homeless man and a 17 year old killed like 5 million, so I think the Spartans have this.


Jackamalio626

hey, come on, be fair at least it was a homeless guy, a teenage farmer, a truck driver and Sasquatch.


yaykaboom

And they walked into a death star


GoodGuyChip

And everyone died.


L3onK1ng

Well not everyone. Tall black suit guy just space tumbleweeded outa there.


GoodGuyChip

I mean, I'm right eventually


L3onK1ng

Eventually everyone who drank water - died


Fenix_Volatilis

BAN DIHYDROMONGENOXIDE!


Alethi_Willshaper

r/hydrohomies does not approve of this message


Zabuzaxsta

Hey a *magic* homeless man and teenage farmer


Ylurpn

Hey... and a princess


Damchester

Of a place that doesn't exist


Halfoftheshaft

He wasn’t homeless he lived in a cave style bungalow.


More_Ad_1808

“Home is where the cave style bungalow is”


Stoly23

*Ahem,* that’s a *19* year old, give the Stormtroopers SOME credit.


Ezqxll

Soren 66 and Kwan Ha kill the hopes of 50 million fans every week.


yeaheyeah

War with the covenant and non stop grunt bitch slapping? Nah fam here's 20 minutes of that combined how about the inner politics of a small back water planet that's the good stuff halo fans want.


RedShirt207

Not cool bro. Those wounds still sting


Kamikaziklown

Leave Soren out of this he is trying his hardest to save those moments. Kwan is just a black hole of boring


legacy642

To be fair he was 19


ThatHistoryGuy1

A one room apartment with no neighbors or rent? That homeless man's living the dream.


mechmaster2275

Marines for cannon fodder


Jkid789

The Stormtroopers would win. Don't get me wrong, they're severely out classed. But that doesn't matter in a numbers game like that. There have been several instances, I just read one yesterday where Spartans admit they don't like high number odds. In this example it was 3 members of Blue Team and 3 unarmored Gamma Spartan-IIIs vs an army of mixed ex-Covenant forces, mainly Brutes. The ratio there was about 1:200. They did not like that ratio, and didn't think they could pull that without at the very least, losing most of their Spartans.


Millworkson2008

ISD are mostly tight corridors though, if you can only fit ten guys in a hall then you only fight ten at a time, least what I’m thinking


[deleted]

[удалено]


Alfalfa-Mundane

Underrated family guy qoute. Ten year olds wouldn't stand a chance.


tsay40

That was the mentality of King Leonidas and….wait for it….his SPARTANS


Millworkson2008

And it worked mostly


dragon_bacon

They all died.


Millworkson2008

Yea after holding out for several days


ncopp

Yeah and without funneling the Persians they probably would have only lasted several hours.


Alabatman

*minutes


reivers

It also means the Spartans don't get much in the way of maneuvering. They're basically going to be eating shots or parking in cover.


ZZoMBiEXIII

>parking in cover. IT'S A LEGITIMATE STRATEGY!


Jkid789

Yeah, but Spartans excel when they have room to plan, maneuver, and execute. Holding out in one, small area works for small to medium enemy forces. But an "endless" number of enemies isn't going to get held up like this. It quite literally just becomes a numbers game and a battle of attrition. Attrition is not what Spartans of any generation are made for really. And considering the original question was 1 Spartan vs the 10,000 Stormtroopers, that's a no-brainer. That doesn't change until it becomes at least 300 vs 10,000 (no that's not a movie reference, it's a standard Spartan-III company size). At that point, each Spartan is fighting around 33 Stormtroopers, which is pretty doable for a Spartan.


Tazery02

Okay hear me out, sergeant Johnsons infinite ammo spartan laser. Tight hallways people walk in maybe three wide formation, one spartan laser shot can likely take care of one or two of these lines, then imagine three people wielding Johnsons spartan laser…


porntla62

Tiny problem with that logic. The spartan is boarding, on account of the ISD having the firepower to kill it without boarding, so needs to advance. Meaning the stormtroopers are waiting for the spartan to come around the corner.


GroverA125

Spartans (at least IIs, some IIIs and IVs) all have personal shields, which in a skirmish can be extremely effective. Spartan and Stormtrooper forces clash in tight quarters tunnels, the tradeoff between roughly-trained, poorly-armored troops and shielded killing machines isn't ever going to look well for the troopers. This isn't like history's spartans, who could very well be wounded or killed by a lucky trade as they felled a foe. Even if a trooper gets a clean shot off on a spartan before they get taken down, the spartans take cover and another replaces them until their shields recharge, then exit cover and continue fighting, good as new except for being short a few bullets. By the time they're even successful taking down one spartan they'll be having to crawl over piles of their own men just to get into the line of fire. The biggest issue the spartans have is running out of ammo. Even then they can probably punch a hole through a stormtrooper, armor and all, which I personally find absolutely terrifying. Some poor Gary hears the clicks of empty mags thinking he's safe, then a group 7 foot tall freight trains come hurtling towards him at 30 miles an hour. Outside of that, Empire weapons seem fairly effective compared to their own defenses, and "borrowing" their weapons seems like an excellent way to keep stocked. Finally, the biggest end-game is a breaching party of spartans reaching and destroying the ships life support systems. MJOLNIR is rated for EVA, while poor old stormtroopers aren't. Amusingly this also works to their advantage, as they can keep a hole they punch in the hull open to make their entry point secure to counterattack. I'd say if Spartans breach an ISD, there's not much hope.


wheredowegofrom

There's plenty of big rooms, also stormtroopers have access to all kinds of bullshit heavy weapons like the e-web heavy repeating blaster which vaporizers people and all kinds of thermal detonators and rocket launchers


JakeASelf

1 Brute ≠ 1 Storm trooper..... They're 10' tall an weigh 1500 lbs of pure muscle. They're Goliaths that make wookies look like ewoks.


jacobactual_

Also, canonically, Stormtroopers are incredibly well-trained and armed. I know the movies make them appear incompetent, but without plot armor the Stormtroopers are an actual force to be reckoned with.


Jkid789

Still pushovers to Clones and especially Spartans though.


neverfearIamhere

Mainly Brutes is a huge kicker here. I think 1 grunt = 1 stormtrooper. One brute could probably slaughter a couple dozen stormtroopers.


Isrrunder

Stormtroopers are actually good soldiers.


NotablyNugatory

So are grunts. We’re just used to being humanity’s best, in game.


Accipiter1138

Depends on what the plot requires, really. It's just a thing with Lucas. He builds up cool bad guys but then kills them off in unspectacular ways.


DinkleDonkerAAA

To be fair, he didn't know Boba was gonna be a fan favorite. Guy was a henchman with two minutes of screentime. He's gone on record saying if he knew people were gonna love him that much he would of made his death a bigger deal


M37h3w3

Not to mention that the "Stormtroopers are actually garbage" meme is predicated on Vader telling them to "pull their punches" so Luke, Leia, and Han could be tracked and the Rebel base blown up. In both the opening of New Hope and Empire they kick ass, take names, and chew bubble gum.


Wilson-theVolleyball

Revenge? As in Revenge of the Sith? Because they're clone troopers and not stormtroopers in that movie. Yes, the clone troopers became stormtroopers after the Republic became the Empire but pretty soon most stormtroopers were non clones and the stormtroopers we see in movies and shows are not former clone troopers.


M37h3w3

Fixed. Brain farted.


BurstMurst

Energy weapons tear up shields so I’d say the storm troopers


artspar

Covenant energy weapons. Depending on the feats you use, plasma pistols are either bad laser pointers or salsa-fying marines in single overcharge shots. Blasters tend to be just as all over the place though, so cant say theres a valid comparison there


thedrunkentendy

Basically this theoretical fight suffers from Halo being a near future sci fi story and star wars being a fantasy story set in a sci fi setting. Fantasy can do some bananas stuff and just kind of brush the logistics under the rug. Near future sci fi needs to seem somewhat attainable based on the timeline and usually tries to tie the current setting and our time together through the technological innovations. Maybe the covenant super carrier vs the ISD would be a better battle since the covenant does get to use.more of the fantasy sci fi elements to have an incredibly huge fleet or impressive ships without the need for explaining how they managed it. Lol Total wet blanket comment but I love the worldbuilding aspect that goes into these decisions.


ClumsyTurtleFucker

How many banshees does the covenant super carrier have? ​ Better question: who would win in a 1v1, a banshee or a TIE fighter?


stickkidsam

I’d say the Banshee actually has advantage here since it also has a bomb. This of course is in reference to lore and not gameplay, but in space combat the Covenant has a major advantage. Banshees and Seraphs for example are able to maneuver much better than in atmosphere. The Seraph might be a better comparison against a tie fighter anyway, since it seems Banshees are meant for strafing runs.


Rulligan

Space Banshees have shields right? This would help even the odds as the standard TIE fighter does not.


Appoxo

I would go with TIE fighter. They can move the turrets, right?


SexyButStoopid

there is no way a slow ass banshee would win against a TIE fighter. In fact I think the TIE fighter is faster than the banshees "projectiles"


dern_the_hermit

> Fantasy cab do some bananas stuff and just kind of brush the logistics under the rug You nailed it. Star Wars can pull some absolute bonkers numbers for ship weaponry and ability. Stuff like multi-hundred gigaton turbolaser blasts, or thousands of g's of acceleration. And it all comes out of random special effects that the artists just thought were cool lookin', or story bits that probably didn't take realistic distances into account for the sake of drama.


Complete_Ad_1896

I understand that an ISD is more technologically advanced; however are the shields made to block projectile based weapons? Aren't most energy shields in the star wars universe unable to block projectile based weapons? I remember some lore from the old Republic games about this. Or maybe it was some other game I cant remember.


trinalgalaxy

There is some conflicting lore there. Most have two shields, one for energy weapons and one for kinetics (a deflector and ray shields to use SW terms). Now general consensus is that ISDs have both, so the MAC rounds would have to break that first. The Empire of War games introduced mass drivers and they didn't care about shields though.


Adequate_Lizard

Empire at War introduced mass drivers but I recall them having a preceding ionizing shot or something like that. It's been like 12 years so I don't really remember.


SelbetG

The mass drivers in empire at war just ignore shields, but that's more of a gameplay mechanic than real lore.


Lieutenant_Captor

That was a different weapon from Empire at War - the Zann Consortium *Aggressor* class had a twin ion/plasma cannon. Ion blast to pop shields and then the plasma burns through the hull. The mass drivers used by the *Vengeance* class frigate, as SelbetG notes, just ignored shields the same way missiles did.


twec21

Most explosives in Star Wars, proton torpedoes, proton bombs etc, are kinetic. At least as established by Squadrons, which is supposed to be canon, shields can absorb that kind of impact. The kind of rounds a frigate would shoot would be pretty much comparable to the turbolasers they can expect in a ship to ship engagement, but the MACs definitely hit harder than anything an ISD can usually expect to come across


[deleted]

There's two basic types of shields. One which disperses energy such as plasma and energy. The other is ray shields, which creates a barrier against physical objects such as asteroids and debris. Of course, with prolonged abuse, the ISDs shields will fail, and those MAC rounds will punch through the hull. The question is can the UNSC last that long.


Kuraeshin

Given the extreme range of UNSC combat doctrine, compared to the close range of Star Wars, UNSC could definitely outlast. TLJ showed the range of Turbolasers to be short and that Star Destroyers dont have lateral motion. Comparitively, Sir Isaac Newton is the deadliest son of a bitch in space.


haby001

This is the real answer. ISD win with overwhelming tech and numbers, but UNSC has super long range mac guns. Only question is if they can successfully kite the star destroyer


toomanyfastgains

Hyperspace seems way more reliable and precise than unsc slipspace would be pretty difficult for them to outrun the isd.


haby001

Yeah another guy mentioned that SW has evolved into quick and strong short range combat because shields and jump tech is too advanced and counters long range weapons. In clone wars we see that a long range ion cannon was devastating tech, but again got outmatched with strong close quarters combat.


PhantomSwagger

Also, don't the SW shields only deflect (unless they retconned that bit at some point)? So anything with sufficient power would overpower them? Like a sustained laser beam, or any mass at significant velocity.


Mernerak

Probably depends on what you consider significant mass. In Rogue One the hammer head is only able to use a push maneuver after the ISD shields were taken down by Ion cannons. But in Last Jedi, Holdo threw all the rules out of the window, so who fucking knows


Zygodac

The engines were out, and the hammerhead was used to push the one disabled ISD in to another. That was fully functioning ISD and both were destroyed. I would consider an ISD to be a significant mass.


Kenos300

The shields stop projectiles as long as they’re moving fast enough. I assume they would stop MAC rounds.


Proper-Award2660

Halo also seems to have a massive range advantage,


[deleted]

Very much so. Star Wars space battles happen within a dozen miles if that. Halo space warfare happens over hundreds of thousands


Knull_Gorr

The Frigates would probably snipe the ISD before it knew what was going on.


[deleted]

Oh defininetly. Especially Super MACS? They are like a magniture more powerful than the Tsar Bomba. No ISD is surviving a Super MAC


Zyvii

Exactly, and the frigates aren’t even super either. Theoretically, these three frigates would just snipe the fuck out of the destroyer, break any shield after like 2-3 shots, and then just obliterate it with each consecutive shot after these are done


SPamlEZ

What about differences in hyperspace capabilities. It seams in Star Wars if the jump drives are ready they can immediately go, while in halo it’s more of a process to enter slips space. This would greatly impact the ability to outmaneuver in battle.


[deleted]

AFAIK Both Halo and Star Wars jumps reqyire an intermediate cooldown time before rapid jumps. Also Star Wars hyperspace uses very constrictive 'lanes' this is why planetary blockades can work in Stsr Wars. Halo slipspace is much less constrictive, granted slipspace escapes take time to do, they can get a jump on an enemy through slipspace flanking. Also also Covenant splipspace is so powerful they can shoot and scoot, constsntly jumping in and out of splipspace if needed, and with precision unmatched


H_B_Eagb

The ISD's shields are also externally generated, and have constantly been brought down by small fighters and bombers. Once they're down, the MAC rounds will tear through the ISD, if the bridge didn't get taken down with the shields, since they're just stuck on top.


DatboyKilljoy

Damn this makes make me want an OG Battlefront II-style Star Wars vs Halo game so badly.


OddballAbe

Halo engagements routinely take place fron the 10k km and above range, while star wars ship battles are usually broadside style naval battles. Plus UNSC AI controlled point defence cannons would shred tie fighters. Now, if the Sheilds can tank MAC rounds until they get close, or you have a ballsy imperial officer who light speed jumps right into the middle of the UNSC battle group, and just starts blasting away with turbos, I'd say the ISD wins. But since even covenant energy shields eventually drop from MAC rounds, ima go with UNSC 8/10.


church1138

>ballsy Imperial officer Ah, so Thrawn wins. Got it, lol.


Merrena

> who light speed jumps right into the middle of the UNSC battle group Yeah, quite literally Thrawn in the newer books lol


MetaCommando

10,000km was described as "point blank range" in the books, with normal engagements 50,000-100,000+ km away


OddballAbe

Halo books? Been awhile since I've read one so thank you for correcting me if that's the case. Even more of a stomp then imo


AFalconNamedBob

I think the UNSC takes it as most starwars engagements are shown to be within visual range and for a space battle thats very important where as 90% of space battles in halo are BVR. Its a safe bet that the paris class out ranges the ISD. As long as they can keep out of range they can whittle down the shields. AI also sways it further on favour as starwars gunnery is shown to be aimed manually.


PM_ME_YOUR_ASTON

Yeah the on screen engagement distances and accuracy of SW weaponry is much worse than UNSC The fact the gunners are manually aiming the turrets too, compared to even dumb AI controlled MAC aiming is huge


jorgp2

USNC would fire a few missiles that ignore shields just like X-Wings.


Hugglemorris

We’ve seen in the movies (RotJ, Rogue One) that ramming a (presumably shielded) star destroyer with a ship or physical object works pretty well, so I think MAC cannons would be effective weapons against an ISD.


An_idiot_27

MACs exist in Star Wars can can do heavy danger to ships (they are used in broad sides) so a single MAC that’s much much much more powerful let alone 3 all on warships is a death sentence for the empire


sipes216

Sw doesnt rewlly explore weapons in the realm of mac artilary in naval battles. Id imagine it would overcome the shields and do some significant damage. Plus, if the launch bays are targeted, then they may be able to hold off launches, maintaining superiority. The fact that there is multiple says that thye can make a cornering advantage.


Dangerous_Dac

We've only seen SW Deflector shields interact with lasers though and not hard weaponry. For all intents, I doubt the Star Destroyer is designed against hardware fired at decent fraction of the speed of light. As per The Last Jedi. Because of this, I'd argue a single *well placed* MAC round would easily cripple the ISD. The odds of this being done at range however are slim. The ISD has considerable laser weaponry which would easily pick at the 3 Frigates at close range, so their best bet is to stay far away and volley MAC shots as fast as they can. They really only need to hit 3 points on the ISD. The Bridge, which is fairly exposed and an easy target, the main reactor which is presumably located at the bottom where that bulge is, and the main hangar bay to prevent the launch of TIE fighters. But, all of that requires foreknowledge of the Imperial design. But if you could identify, I think a MAC round would pierce directly through the hull and come out still hypersonic on the other side.


BisterMee

Even if you don't know the design of the star destroyer, you know where the engines are. A single MAC round from the side can completely cripple the star destroyer and leave it dead in the water.


BisterMee

And tie fighters don't have enough power to cause any real damage without sustained fire. Bombers could, but they'll get a big target painted on them.


StarSilverNEO

The Holdo Maneuver is an extreme of extremes that is a poor reference for .. . pretty much anything outside of how much damage ships can take in Star Wars ig Star Wars ships have Deflector Shields, which are part ray (anti energy) and part particle (anti projectile) shielding - so the MACs would have to cut through said shielding before they can catch the ISD.


trinalgalaxy

Assuming they can pen the shielding, even near misses would do massive damage. We are talking a 700 ton round moving at a small fraction of a percent of the speed of light, that's a lot of energy slamming into the ISD. Plus most of the important shit is toward the rear, so any hit will likely be aimed toward the rear.


Spartic-nomad

Question. Is the master chief involved? And will be giving the empire back a bomb?


PhantomSwagger

Scanners on the ISD detect a small object, roughly the size of a person, heading towards them. "Lord Vader, they seem to be only sending one person." Vader, sensing the approaching enemy: "Fuck."


Bricks_4_You

TBF I think Vader would kill chief.


PhantomSwagger

Basically the same as the fight with Didact.


All_Work_All_Play

Didact fell prey to classic villain mistakes. Wave after wave of defeatable minions. Didn't destroy the hero when he had the chance, multiple times. He even monologued. You can't even parody how proforma he was.


MetaCommando

"You sly dog, you got me monologuing!"


LiftSmash

"I'M SYNDROME!!! YOUR NEMESIS AND I....." *WTF DID HE GO*


KnightRadiant95

This is basically why chief would lose. It showed he's weak to telekinetic powers. Vader would just force choke him and make a pun before snapping chiefs windpipe.


danktonium

"Such *violence*. You would have made an excellent captain of the Roy-" "Wait, I can be an officer if I join you?"


jhallen2260

But is Vader on a light bridge?


danktonium

Definitely not something Vader's known for. "You have failed me, Inquisitor." *slash*


Grzmit

Somethint i love so much about vader, he doesnt do any of that stereotypical villain shit, he is just a villain who will get the job done.


HelpfulYoda

Man’s had too much experience of such villains during the clone wars. He’s not just a villain. He’s a protagonist who became a villain, and knows why villains lose against heroes.


Brooklynxman

Chief only won that because of Cortana hacking the hardlight bridge. Harder to hack something on the ISD to kill Vader and not Chief, and without her Chief lost to the Didact.


skweebop

You bring up an interesting point, and I'm not well versed in the details of either lore, but it seems like Cortana could absolutely wreak havoc on a Star Destroyer with little prep. Would the Empire have some ability / obstacles to thwart Cortana's abilities?


Brooklynxman

While gaining information seems easy, to mess with the engines you need to head to the engines, to mess with the tractor beam you need to head to the beam generator, and so on. Controls seem to be very localized on Imperial ships, in fact all Star Wars ships, excepting connections to and from the bridge. They defend against her by coincidence, by having compartmentalized systems. Once she physically reaches each system, they're fucked.


Roboticide

A general theory in /r/MawInstallation is that many systems are *incredibly* advanced, which is why they seem so paradoxically primitive. Most missiles, automated guidance systems, point defense weapons, etc can and will be hacked or jammed which is why you need pilots and gunners (or at least completely self-contained droid pilots with no meaningful network connection). It's why combat doctrine has evolved to (relatively) extreme close range combat. It's why R2 having direct access to a system makes him very effective - Imperial network architecture is basically impossible to hack remotely but presumes that one able to access a terminal generally has privileges to be there in the first place.


Adaphion

You also have to factor in that Star Wars was made in the 70-80s, they didn't know wtf networks and remote hacking and shit were back then. They sorta just retroactively made it into what you said.


marikwinters

As funny as the similarities between them may be, Vader is a different animal from the Didact. Best argument you could have is if somehow Cortana were able to access Vader’s suit I guess, but the dude can survive without his suit out of pure hatred. He is capable of doing some pretty fucking exceptional shit as well (such as murdering people from the other side of the galaxy by looking at them on camera).


Dominator0211

Exactly. People seem to be forgetting that Vader reached across the galaxy and force choked a specific officer on a ship full of thousands of people. And we don’t even know if he needed the camera in the first place, for all we know he could have done the same thing through a text. And even if he needs to see someone to force choke them, that still means Master Chief would have to sneak up on a person who can sense everything around him and kill people from any distance as long as they’re not also a Jedi or Sith


Lucky-3-Skin

I don’t think they have a clue on how strong vader actually is.


jack121013

Hes crazy strong


SuicidalTurnip

John's only saving grace is his supernatural levels of luck - his canonical plot armour.


GawainSolus

Vader also has canonical plot armor though in that he is the chosen one of the force


Knull_Gorr

He's kill a Space Dragon strong. Dude would shit John out for breakfast.


noble_29

Does this imply Vader eats shit for breakfast? That was an interesting mash up of idioms haha


CannabisandCandy

You eat shit for breakfast?


imsadyoubitch

Classic Happy Gilmore


Beepbeepimadog

Most X vs Vader are silly, anyway, since against a non-force sensitive opponent he can just force choke them and cheese any 1v1


Commander_Keller

Vader is literally one of the strongest force users ever, he will crush Chief into a mjolnir cube


Bricks_4_You

yeah. And fuck if chief has to fight old republic sith...


Commander_Keller

Revan, Nihilus, and Bane would be Forerunner level threats


Lucky-3-Skin

Nah Nihilus is consuming everything by himself


MakeURage1

Yeah, I don't think it'd even be much of a fight. Vader would just force choke him and be done with it.


Bricks_4_You

I didnt even think about that tbh. I was thinking just a 1 on 1 no force choking, but if vader pulled that out... yeah


MakeURage1

Either a force choke, or just outright crush him like a tin can. In a 1v1 with no force though, I feel like Chief would have a much better shot at winning


Xx_JohnWBooth_420xX

Chief would have to rely on his plot armor to beat vador


Isrrunder

Wouldn't Vader habe more plot armour since we know where and when he dies?


wrong-mon

Na, I'm giving it To Vader Master chief is a supersoldier but Darth Vader has literal magic. There's nothing in the Arsenal of the United NationsThat can stop a force choking


HeathBar112

“A second person is coming as well. They appear to be blasting heavy metal and have a shotgun.”


Luciusvenator

I like that with how the Doom lore is set up, any hypothetical "who would win" fight against Doomslayer ends with Doomslayer winning basically.


slush-exe

Unless the slayer fights Kirby. That pink orb is horrifyingly strong.


Guardianpigeon

Kirby fought a guy who threw entire galaxies at him, and he still just treated it like nothing special. No one fucks with Kirby.


JonDoeJoe

Kirby killed the god of chaos and evil


Lucky-3-Skin

I love chief and all, but there is no luck involved in this fight. Chief is getting crushed like a can lol


NoHurry87

Vader would wreck master chief in an instant.


JonDoeJoe

Vader can force choke chief before he even gets to board the star destroyer


Nothing-Specific-19

Shipmaster is thinking: 3 to 1, then it is an even fight.


XenXem

Scrolled past far too many paragraphs before I saw the correct answer


Nothing-Specific-19

Seriously! I can't believe I got to post it lol.


lust-boy

god fucking damnit i was so immersed in the star wars/halo lore debate up there i completely forgot this line really makes me wish halo hadn't completely dropped the covenant POV perspective out of the main game narrative. they were seriously one of my favourite aspects of the game and why halo 2 has my favourite campaign.


Proud-Camp-491

I would say the Star destroyer but will take damage from the mac cannons. If the frigates had shields then they could well win


CHOOSE_A_USERNAME984

I think we’re forgetting that Star Wars battles are always fought within visual range and halo battles usually aren’t. The Star destroyer also has really bad missile defenses, a few shivas would definitely slip through.


Proud-Camp-491

I think its also down to other areas. How much experience does the unsc have fighting the empire? First combat would they think about flying to the rear of a star destroyer? Would the be facing one an other nose to nose. Or starboard combat. Each has different outcomes. How close are they to one an other as this effects the primary shields of the star destroyer. With so many different forms of combat, commanders and officers can all change the outcome of combat. Heck ai's can change it. But in straight up combat the star destroyer has a better chance of beating the frigates. Edit side note. Missiles are fantastic if they are in range, same with a nuke.


__PETTYOFFICER117__

Does the empire have AI like the UNSC tho? I would think AI would be a massive advantage, especially if they had some kind of info on the star destroyer.


Armored-Potato-Chip

They do, but empire AI are much more rudimentary, more akin to dumb ai, and Dumb ai are common in halo, it’s the smart ai that are an asset


MetaCommando

Hell, Halo's dumb AI are much, much more effective than Star Wars AI aside from sentience/personality. The Holdo Maneuver kinda proves that the entire Star Wars universe suffers from some mental disability for not using it 10,000 years sooner.


Proud-Camp-491

As far as im aware yes, but they are no where need as good as UNSC smart Ai's. I would say Dumb Ai is the hight of the Empire's ai tech.


kingerthethird

Another factor: it's 3 vs 1. Not everyone has to come from the same direction. Or necessarily on the same plane. Top and bottom are open for action as the front gets assaulted.


Proud-Camp-491

Also got factor in the mac fires in a straight line which fires from the bow(?: front of the ship running down its central core) The major weakness of a star destroyer is its rear as it has no rear mounted guns. As of the rest of the ship is fairly covered with light and heavy cannons that could easily be said to be a lot more advanced weaponry of the unsc. Its bridge is also a blaring weakness. While the unsc has no shields, limited range of heavy weapon fire (being it has to face the sd) and its recharge time. The nukes giving off ion particals could fuck with the sd can also be a major issue


LordEsidisi

True, but... the Star Wars universe almost certainly has the technology for longer range encounters, they just don't use it, implying that its obsolete. I can think of two reasons... 1, shield and armor have improved to the point that they can only be penetrated by powerful, close range weapons or 2, precise hyperdrive jumps allow them to jump in at close range, negating any range advantage.


SPamlEZ

Agreed. There must be a reason kinetic long range weapons aren’t used when they clearly have the technology to allow it. Likely the ability to avoid them. I think the precision jumping would negate the MAC rounds range


Allstar13521

Being able to do a precision jump only matters when you can charge your drive in the minute between the light reaching you and the round reaching you.


Beegrene

I think the new Thrawn books sort of hinted that Star Wars ships have FTL sensors, somehow.


3personal5me

I think I heard it was because of electronic warfare. With all the signal scrambling and hijacking they could do with computers, it basically devolved into "We need to see what we are shooting".


psychotic11ama

This is a great point. I forgot how close SW battles are compared to Halo. If the ISD shields don’t stop MAC rounds there’s a good chance the fight could be over before the ISD realized it started


ADragonuFear

Star wars usually takes place at shorter ranges, so te frigates might be able to outrage and fire mac volleys. I wouldn't count on them having nukes due to supply issues for the unsc. And as many others point out, if the shields can't be broken by Mac guns then the frigates would have no options. I sadly can't find range stats for the ISD so this is just a hypothesis, a game hypothesis


SPamlEZ

ISD can precision jump, no need to chase. I have no idea if the comparison of a hyperdrive to a slip space drive though. Could possibly allow them to get in close.


Cruel2BEkind12

The ISD may be able to precision jump to a planet but I doubt they can do it in combat. Episode 8 kind of proved that when the rebel Raddus was running away from them rather effectively. If the ISD could just jump close to engage. That movie would have ended a lot sooner... jeez why didn't that happen actually...


SPamlEZ

Let’s just blame it on The empire being far superior to the first order.


xXx_TheSenate_xXx

That always made me mad, seems like the fake order almost went back in technology rather than forwards. Maybe it’s just because the galaxy has been at war for so long that there’s no new ideas… maybe due to all the fighting there hasn’t really been a chance for the galaxy to grow technologically and economically. Kinda like they hit the great filter. Like that’s just it, that’s as far as technology can advance. That’s why I liked legends so much. Reading the books further down, seeing all the different tech and force powers that came to pass…. No I’m just ranting…


LtCptSuicide

I'd say it's actually a pretty close fight and boils down to who has the more competent crew. The ISD has shields and lasers, as well as a larger tonnage and larger compliment of fighters and troops But the frigates are more agile, have a longer effective range, and ironically, somewhat more powerful weapons (MAC and shivas to think about) Either side would be in trouble if caught by surprise, in a head on, plenty of warning duke out it would boil down to simply which ships have the more competent crew and a bit of luck.


trinalgalaxy

Turbo lasers are stupid powerful, but then again they are crossing the largest coil guns in scifi. And while SW shields have been shown to be very powerful, their kinetic resistance has never been that great.


ReklessGamer07

Yeah the ISD in Legends is stupidly powerful but is so fricking weak in the movies. It really depends on what canon we are thinking about here.


Thatedgyguy64

Not even just legends. Delta Base Zero still exists in canon is well.


Smasher_WoTB

"Largest coilguns in Sci-Fi" So what's the difference between a Railgun and a Coilgun? Is it that Railguns use looooonnggggg rails to magnetically propel projectiles and Coilguns use coils to magnetically propel projectiles?


AustinWickens

Yep you got it right. Railguns use rails and coilguns use coils.


Smasher_WoTB

Makes sense, glad I finally thought to ask this question.


Lord_of_Foxes

Just wanted to hop in, I’ve actually built a couple coil guns before! The main difference is that ‘rail guns’ are easier to scale up, and coil guns are easier to scale down. So if you want a big ol space ship canon, the rail gun would be your go to, whereas coil guns would be more effective as personnel weapons. Now the plot twist is… they’re actually pretty much the same thing! A rail gun is just a coil gun with only 1 ‘turn’ in the coil, which is represented by the rails. Now, this seemingly small technicality causes massive changes in their respective design philosophy. For instance, in a rail gun, the projectile is also part of the circuit, so to ‘fire’ it you need to push the projectile in between the rails with something. Home made rail guns often use compressed air, whereas the navy’s prototypes use an actual explosive charge, I believe. Coil guns however, are pretty self contained. The projectile is just any sort of ferrous metal that sits behind the coils, then when the magnetic field kicks on, the projectile is pulled towards the coils and then launched out the barrel. In this sense it’s more of a magnetic catapult but that just doesn’t sound as cool. Now, this part is just my speculation: in future, I think coil guns could be a viable replacement for firearms since you could theoretically fire anything magnetic, leading to cheaper and easier to manufacture ammunition. Plus you would only experience negligible recoil when firing the gun. The downside of course is now you have to have both ammunition for your gun and battery replacements on hand.


trinalgalaxy

Both are magnetic weapon styles. A rail gun has 2 rails and the projectile wedged between completing the circuit. By the right hand rule the kinetic force on the round sends it down the rails. Rail guns have a maximum length as friction melts the round to the point the circuit breaker. Coil guns use a different aspect of the same principle. They have a single wire wrapped into a coil along which a large current is sent. This generates a magnetic field pointed down the coil. A round is floats in the center of this field where all the fields align and is pushed down it. As no physical contact is made a coil gun's length is limited by resistance and power. You can also wrap coils in coils. Fun fact, this is why rail guns have kinetic recoil but coil guns tend to vibrate as they experience magnetic recoil.


BrokenSpartan23

I mean it's all about the circumstances because the frigates have both maneuverability and attack with Mac cannons but the star destroyer is a lot beefier overall it really depends on how quickly the frigates get hit or if their evasive maneuvers keep them safe long enough to Mac cannon the star destroyer. I could be wrong just my thoughts


UberKaiser575

I think the frigates have a high chance of winning. People here correctly pointed out that the ISD has shielding, therefore it can take more punishment than the frigates. But the UNSC ships tend to be more heavily-armed than ISDs. MAC guns on those frigates have a longer range than the ISD's turbolasers. After the MAC guns take out the shields, even the missiles on the frigates would absolutely shred that ISD.


Mann_Chetly

To my knowledge, Star Wars shields are shit a blocking kinetics. Hell you can see an ISD get its bridge destroyed in ep5 by an asteroid. Then again with the Executor SSD in ep6 getting taken out by an A-wing kamikazing into the bridge. In the Empire At War games the Zann Consortium's ships have a lot of mass drivers that also ignore shields.


DIRECTCURRENT59

I found this on the star wars wiki: >Admiral Gial Ackbar, wishing to buy more time for the fighters to accomplish their mission, ordered a concentrated barrage against the Executor. As the Alliance warships focused their fire on the Super Star Destroyer, two RZ-1 A-wing interceptors strafed the Executor's bridge deflector shields, bringing them down. > >However, Rebel Green Leader Arvel Crynyd, with his A-wing starfighter badly damaged by fire from the Executor, managed to retain just enough control of his stricken ship to send it towards the Imperial vessel's unshielded bridge.


MrrSpacMan

That was my thought too, like pretty much the entire universe is energy-based weapons so do the shields even account for kinetic anymore. Orrr is it a case that everyone switched to energy in the first place because the same technology that drives tractor beams can also create a kinetic shield so bullets became obsolete Many questions


Bknight111

Wow, a lot of great points in this thread. A lot of smart and observant fans. I love reading through comments on posts like this.


RabidsouthAfrican

I love it but every time something from episode 8 gets mentioned I want to blow my fukn brains out lol


some_random_nonsense

I *think* the cannon goes that some time 12,000 BBY turbolasers were able to beat slugthrowers in the arms race to defeat armor, which started a new arms race of shields vs turbos. Its kinda like rolling up to a gun fight with a Kevlar vest and some dude just pulls out a longsword and stabs you in the chest.


Del_Castigator

Its like slugthrowers (guns to us) they are rare but great for fighting Jedi.


LordEsidisi

The A wing only took down the SSD after the entire rebel fleet took down its shields. You have two types of shields, iirc- ray and particle. Particle shields block solid things, ray shields do not.


XevinsOfCheese

Gotta correct you there, ISDs have far more weapons but the main ones focused on the broadsides, and then point defense (anti fighter) guns scattered around the hull. UNSC ships have them spread more evenly with the only unbalance being that the mac gun literally can’t point anywhere but forward.


Cooper323

This. I think if the frigates were used at range and didn’t get in close to the ISD it’d be game set and match. The frigates are practically built around those MAC guns.


wirelessp0tat0

I'd say it's pretty hard to compare Star Wars to basically anything because well.. nothing makes fucking sense in that universe.


i875p

Just some anecdotal observations: a few missiles from the M95 system appear to be able to inflict considerable damage to a SDV-class heavy corvette, as shown at the end of Exodus. It was unclear whether the corvette still had its shields on when Six fired the missiles though. If the Star Destroyer's shields and hull are similar to the Covenant corvette in terms of resilience then the frigates should be able to destroy it, as their MAC guns and ship-based weaponry should be a lot more powerful than the M95. Not sure about the AA capability of the frigates, but the defense systems on Anchor 9 and the Savannah were capable of mopping up a considerable number of Banshees, Seraphs, and even Phantoms. I would suppose 3 frigates would have better AA capability than a repair station + a Paris class frigate, and TIE fighters have no shields.


Toricitycondor

As someone else already said, it'll come down to the ISD's shield strength. UNSC has Speed, Maneuverability, Longer combat range and (arguably) better weapons with the MAC rounds and Shivas I feel like the "Keyes Loop" tactic would work well against an ISD but we are also forgetting that the UNSC might also have AIs on the ships and that could also change the tide of battle.


UnarmingLeech

Star wars lasers have a degree of plasma to them that would cut the frigates apart. I just went between wookiepedia and halo Fandom over and over and I think the difference is the destroyers amount of firepower compared to the frigate. Yes the MAC can do damage but they have to line up a shot fast before either a squadron of tie fighters rips them to shreds with yet more plasma lasers or they get volleyed by the turbolasers that the main ship has. Titanium is the main component in UNSC ships and melts around 1700°. Plasma burns upwards of 3000° and that's the plasma that we know of, not the high tech lasers and plasma guns they use in star wars and even in the covenant for comparison. I think if it were maybe 12 to 1 it would be a fair fight but otherwise I give it to the imperial class star destroyer. (This is also based on original trilogies star destroyers and the paris-classed frigate since that matches the lengths given. New trilogies technology would wreck UNSC without a doubt)


starcraftre

We might be able to use real seen numbers for this. Star wars shields come in two types: particle and ray. The former is effective only against physical damage, and the latter only against energy. An SD had both, the question is how much physical damage it could repel. In Empire Strikes Back, an SD is destroyed by an asteroid that hits it: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Unidentified_Imperial_II-class_Star_Destroyer_(asteroid_collision) . That asteroid is about the same length as the tower, 200m (give or take), and oblong. For an ellipse 200x100x100, the volume is approximately 1 million cubic meters. Rock is between 1500 and 3500 kg/m^3 , so let's use 2500. Gives a mass of 2.6 million tonnes. During that scene, the rock transits the length of the ship in about 1-2 seconds. Call it a relative velocity of 1 km/s. Total kinetic energy of 1.3 trillion terajoules will kill an SD. Could be lower, but this is a known kill. Paris MAC is apparently a 600 tonne slug at 30 kps. About 270 terajoules. I'm going with the SD. Edit: on the other hand, how much firepower can an SD put out? In the same scene, one vaporized an asteroid, and [that calculation has already been done for us](http://www.stardestroyer.net/tlc/Power/). About 250 TJ for a single turbolaser shot. A single turret on the SD has the same firepower as the main weapons on all of the Paris class. Faster fire rate and longer usable range as well. This is a curb stomp. The real question is whether the Paris classes can get in a lucky hit before they die.


Rampant16

Thanks for typing this up. The legends figures of the energy output of the different ISD systems also back up what you wrote. ISD is a lot more comparable to Forerunner tech than primitive UNSC ships. I find Halo space combat and ships much more interesting but it does not change the fact that SW ships are significantly more powerful both in the available numbers and what you can see in the films.


cringemaster21p

I'd say they could beat a victory or aclimator but they have a minimal chance at beating a isd