Nothing wrong with it as long as you don’t dictate to others. However many anarchists especially in the west have been harmed by Christianity in various ways, and I think that’s where the negativity comes from. But that is their problem, not yours (and I’m saying that as someone who has had issues myself with Christianity—I’m queer and it made my youth harder than it had to be).


I think, especially for Americans, it's hard to look at Christianity in a positive light after the abuse and torture people have committed to justify it. But to understand how divergent American Christianity is and how it is built to drive profit and not healing, it goes a long way to building a bridge. I've become a big fan of Christian Anarchism which, in short terms, encourages a return early pre-central churches. No 'Popes' or 'Archbishops'. It's much more communal in concept. In fact, I'd go so far as to call American Christianity a fraudulent charlatan making a ruse of deep traditional Christian beliefs.


Any recommendations to reading up on Christian Anarchism? It sounds pretty similar to how my beliefs have developed


Tolstoy’s *The Kingdom of God is Within You.* You could also check out some writings from Dorothy Day, like *The Long Loneliness.* The Catholic Worker Movement has been around for a while, and while The Quakers are not explicitly Christian, they’ve definitely incorporated a lot of anarchist ideals into their practice.


To piggyback off this comment, this is a great book to start with. There's also other good essays and papers to read, but I'd implore to keep in mind these are more....a dialectics than 'this is the way, deviate and you're not this'. It's a way of letting you ponder your theology to help grow your faith constructively and the internet has been a great way to help Christian Anarchists link up and share values between each other.


Dorothy day’s autobiography “the long loneliness” is pretty interesting. She founded the catholic workers. She talks about becoming a catholic while staying an anarchist.


Christian Anarchism: A Political Commentary on the Gospel by Alexandre Christoyannopoulos is a great overview of the history and major thinkers in Christian anarchism. Good place to start.


Jesus and John Wayne: How White Evangelicals Corrupted a Faith and Fractured a Nation is a good book.


I don't think it helps that Christianity is a hierarchical power structure either.


Nothing wrong with believing what you like. But if you support a vertical institution with a long history of being unfair and doing wrong to individuals and communities, then you’re going against anarchy.


of being unfair? church waged fucking wars with countless fatalities. They’re murderers!


Yes. I’m trying to be less violent in my speech patterns. But this time I ended up sounding sarcastic.


Christian anarchism has been a thing for a long time. There should be no issues so long as you keep your faith personal and don't try to thrust it upon anyone else. Many people have been harmed by Christianity or at least those who claim to be Christian and anarchism has had a long history of atheism. But that history has also involved religious anarchists who were contemporary. Really there shouldn't be anything inherently wrong so long as you are consistently anarchistic in your approach. Your faith is your own and it not up to anyone else to dictate what you should believe. Religion can be used for good or for ill, just as how there are Norse pagan anarchists and yet in history we have many examples of Norse pagans supporting monarchy, slavery, and even outright fascism. Christianity is no different, it's just more culturally relevant and thus will be put under more scrutiny.




r/RebelChristianity and r/christiananarchism are good too


I have a sort of caution around Christians, just because a lot of the harm in the world has been caused by them and justified through their beliefs (and still is). They are also pretty likely to look down on you if you're not Christian. I'm Jewish, and the most anti-Semitic comments I've ever gotten have been from Christians. ("You killed jesus" "jews control the banks so christians get less funding" "you're going to hell because you don't believe in jesus" "jews are trying to erase christians" etc) However, I'm not going to hate someone just for being christian, but they are going to have to earn my trust. Being part of a group that has caused so much harm, you cannot expect those that have been harmed by you to be at ease. I personally believe that dictating what someone can beleive is against anarchist beliefs, but yeah the actions from christians make many people wary of anyone claiming to be one. I'm not anti-christian, I'm just wary due to history and personal experience. If you aren't hurting anyone, I don't mind what your religion is. Hopefully this made sense, I know it's kind of jumbled.


I’m not very familiar on the topic, but you should look into Christian Anarchism. Leo Tolstoy was a Christian anarchist. And yeah, I don’t see it as a problem. As long as you’re not using it to harm other people, others shouldn’t dictate for you what your faith is.


Leo Tolstoy was one of the first Christian Anarchists and is closely associated with the ideology. I'd recommend "The Kingdom of God is Within You" if you want to know more about his Christian Anarchism. I don't see anything wrong with being Christian and Anarchist. The Quakers have arguably been practicing Anarchism for centuries.


The answer you’re looking for is more subjective than objective. While I can only speak from experience, being religious/dogmatic enforces hierarchies, patriarchy, and “otherism” which further divide society and culture to detract from more oppressive struggles; which detracts from the real issues and systems that divide us. Some Christians are great people, who help uplift and enrich their community. Others are concerned about abortions, immigrants, and LGBTQ+ people. It depends on if you want to freely organize and align yourself with them. I vibe with the “socialist Jesus” ideals, but rarely see them practiced by my friends and family. In America, I see Christianity especially as a death cult. Having been raised in it, and brainwashed most of my life; the extreme views that subtly take hold of a person aren’t easily given up. We see how damaging and polarizing it can become, and unfortunately has caused so much pain and suffering for millions that won’t end anytime soon. Historically religion is used by the state or dominant group as a club to beat the lower classes into submission. No Gods, No Masters, No Chains. I want to learn, grow, and change as a human. Christianity allows for none of that.


I think people hear “Christianity” and there’s a knee-jerk reaction. Apart from all of the people currently being persecuted by Christians around the world, the absolutely WRECKED relationship that Christianity has with sex and gender, and the historical context of Christianity as a facilitator of colonialism and the state (things others have already mentioned a lot) there’s a theoretical component as well. If anarchism is against the hoarding and consolidation of power (a.k.a. Hierarchy) then a lot of anarchists take issue with the idea that there’s just one god, that god is male, that male god is presented primarily as white, and that one entity is omnipotent (a power hoarder). It’s an idea that is literally the epitome of anarchist contradiction. The more one learns about other religions the more it seems suspect that this one holds the answers. You have to believe in a soul, if you believe in a soul it can only be one and no more, you have to believe that someone external to you can and does judge you and that, even if it’s not exactly karma, people get their due somehow, you have to believe in reward and punishment from an external power, you have to believe you were created a certain way and then chastised for acting in your nature, you have to believe that there was a guy who lived a long time ago that we should glorify and hold up on a pedestal because he “died for our sins” (a pretty specious claim), you have to believe in sins… like, there are a LOT of leaps of faith, to say nothing of the relentless anthropocentrism of it. To say all that shit and tack a “but anarchist though” at the end of it feels to a lot of people like nah bruh I’m good- you can keep trying to give this thing a new coat of paint if you want but it’s still a tool of oppression to a lot of people.


Well said! As an anarchist I think that people can believe whatever they want, but that doesn't mean I have to uphold their beliefs as valid.


Morally, I don't care. Are there contradictions? Maybe, depending on what kind of christianity you prefer. I personally find "enlightened" christianity (meaning christianity that is heavily influenced by the enlightenment) to be somewhat contradicting to what I call anarchism. But there are texts in the bible that you can actually use to motivate some parts of anarchism. For me that has been ecclesiastes 8:9 mainly, when I was a christian. The topic comes up rather frequently in the bible and you could even argue that there was a time after the rule of the judges and before king saul where israel actually lived in anarchy.


The problem isn't what you believe in but the fact that Christians believe everyone must believe what they believe in. We are okay with your faith as long as you are okay with ours.


I actually think it's sort of obvious, if one does not take a Fundamentalist approach to hermeneutics (or one of Fundamentalism's likewise authoritarian predecessors), that to follow Jesus requires complete, radical opposition to power structures. Unfortunately, most Christians who accept that respond by withdrawing from society. I am a Christian anarchist because I believe that we Christians are meant to participate in the liberation of society from oppression and violence. To me that is the most important form of religious devotion, even though (unlike many Christian anarchists) I also regard the other, more typical forms as important as long as they do not conflict with the former.


Go ahead and be christian all you want just don't be a fundamentalist (homo/xeno)-phobe or a misogynist and you're good. Being overly dogmatic and/or believing everything your preacher says is bad. Being a Christian is just kinda whatever in and of itself though. Believe what you want just don't use your beliefs to shame others who also aren't hurting anyone for doing and believing what they want.


People can believe whatever they want as long as they don’t fuck with anybody else.


I’m a Christian and an anarchist. I know many who are. I will say, here in the US, it won’t make you very popular with other Christians and other anarchists. With the growing rise in Christian nationalism, I’ve seen many people distancing themselves from the American Church. It’s good to remember there’s Christians all over the world that look/act a whole lot different than here in the US. Just remember your faith is your own, and no use of power should ever be used to subjugate others to it. That’s what’s so alarming but Christian Nationalism. If God doesn’t use force to convert us, what authority does any human have to do so?


No gods, no masters.


Wouldn’t be very anarchist if I wanted to control other people’s beliefs, and I’ve known plenty of Christians who were fine people. That being said, mine and many others’ experiences with Christians have been dominated by borderline fascist bigots, which does lead to some degree of a negative outlook on Christianity (and religion as a whole)


way to judge a book by it cover


I can't speak for the person you're replying to, but I judge the bible by its contents and boy is it full of garbage.


I think you’re mostly getting that from Twitter anarchists which are a... peculiar group also ironically anarchists on reddit probably are the most accepting to Christian anarchists then any other group on reddit that ain’t religious themselves also FYI i am a Christian libsoc


No gods, no masters


None until people try to convert others


you could choose not to listen. why do you care if someone tries to convert you. I could see if you are talking about force but I don't see the harm of spreading God's word.


As someone who's spent most of their life as a leftist bisexual in the Bible belt, you can choose not to listen all you like. The type of christian who will try and convert someone is insistent. I know a *lot* of chrsitians, most of them don't try to convert others, the ones that do try to convert *only* convert. Enjoy *your* god's word. It's not mine. Evangelizing christians should learn to respect that.


yeah i dont care about your politics or sexual orientation or your geographic location. so do you propose forcing someone to stop spreading God's word? do you think you are better than an evangelizing christian?


There is no way in answering this without insulting you.


Religion is just licking the boots of an imaginary facist


What about no gods no masters do you not understand


It's inherently antithetical and contradictory, but as long as you keep your make-believe to your self it shouldn't be an issue.


seems to be a lot of caution here about christian anarchism. you can tell a lot of people don't like christians but don't want to portray a negative self image by excluding christians. I would dare do say Jesus may have been an anarchist. even the old testament between judges and kings, anarchism is seen as the better route by God but the people wanted a king. when Jesus said give unto Ceasar was he really saying to pay taxes or was he implying to give up money? I honestly don't think anarchy is possible without God. God is the only one who can bring people together. man kind focuses too much on differences and is too self absorbed thinking only our way is right not caring what others think. anarchy will probably only be achieved after the second coming of christ and we will all go through hell on earth on our path to a free and holy existence.


It has nothing to do with a 'negative self image' whatever that means, and everything to do with the fact that anarchism by definition means not exerting power over others. I don't have to like christians nor their foolish beliefs, but that doesn't mean I should do anything about either.


ok so pretend we live in an anarchist society. you don't like me because I'm christian. I won't shut up about the Bible. what now?


Sorry, were you still talking? ​ What makes you think what I or anyone else would do in such a situation would be any different in an anarchist society than it is now? I choose who I do or do not interact with; free association for all. If you're an annoying bible thumper I'm probably not going to interact with you; as the bard said, "I do desire we may be better strangers".


Nothing wrong with [anarcho-christianity](https://youtube.com/@AnarchoChristian) it is a thing its based on the overt anti rich msging in the bible. But do i support it not really i personally would like to abolish all religion and replace them with a modern workers/nature based religion (i dont mean religion in the traditional sense, i believe the spiritual and community sides of religion to be part of the human experience. and i dont care what stories make you a happy and fulfilled person)


Well you’re praying to “The Lord” so … do I need to draw a picture?






This unironically. Religion is the opiate of the masses.


Just so you are aware, Marx meant that in a relatively positive sense. Since he was on opium at the time because it was a pain killer. The full quote is >Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people. Marx meant that he saw religion as a way for people to cope with the existing circumstances and that when capitalism is overthrown, religion would go to the wayside eventually as there would be no need for it in a communist society.


People often don't remember that in the 1800s opium was the new wonder-drug. The negative associations with opium were found out later in the 1800s.


He was saying religion is copium. That's not positive.


Hence why I said "relatively" Marx didn't mean the quote as in a "people are duped into following religion so they're complacent" as the quote is often portrayed as, he just saw it as a way people choose to deal with their lives being subjective to the grueling conditions of class society. Hence "heart of the heartless world"


These are the same thing existentially. If you're using religion to cope instead of actually trying to make the world better, you might as well be shooting up heroine. It may make you feel good, but it won't actually improve your conditions and may even make them far worse.


Again, close but not entirely correct as the use of the term opium was rooted in the time when it was uses primarily as a pain killer. Marx himself was on it at the time. It's not really the same as shooting up heroin. We think of opium nowadays as an addictive drug but that's not how it was back then it was just a way to cope with the pain. Edit: to clarify, it's less about escapism and feeling good and more about easing the pain.


>It's not really the same as shooting up heroin. I never said it was. I was simply expanding on the opiate metaphor. You've moved away from the point that religion is just a coping strategy, not actual positive change.


I'm not really moving away from the point, because the point is that there's a difference between heroin and opium used in the 1840s. You can't really get Heroin prescribed by a doctor to deal with chronic pain. As I said it's not really about escapism, or feeling good, just not feeling pain. Marx did see it as a cope and believed the way to actually undo the pain was through a communist revolution. But your use of metaphor make it out to be less a cope and more a replacement which is not really what that quote is about. Marx did not see religion as a real solution to the issue but did see it as an expression of real issues. Really though we're likely saying similar things about Marx's belief on religion in a different way, but I don't think Marx saw religion as a distraction.


I think it's more likely you're seeing a Christian aspect of more broadly anti-religious content, which, given that religion poisons everything, is something you can hopefully retain an open mind to when encountering.


Religion and anarchism has always had always been a contentious issue that drastically anti religious attitudes seem to be dying out but it still exists as it may be


I live in a very catholic country. I don't know any catholic or Christian anarchist but I know catholics who practice their religion in a very individualistic way. What I mean is that for them it's a personal, spiritual experience. They don't go to church, they don't participate in the institution that rules their religion. They also don't try to impose their religion to others, again, they aren't ashamed of it but they keep it to themselves unless you ask or the topic comes up. I think if you practice it in that way, it isn't wrong. As far as I know, anarchism is about freedom, you are free to believe in whatever you want but never forget that your freedom ends where the freedom of your peers start. You are free to do whatever you want to do as long as it doesn't damage the freedom of others. Respect others and you won't contradict your political beliefs with your spiritual beliefs.


Theology is complicated and moreso than anti-theists give credit for. As long as it doesn’t CONFLICT with anarchist tenets then of course you can be a Christian while being an anarchist.


Check out r/radicalchristianity


I’m not Christian but if u think about what Jesus stood for im sure he’d say fuck the state.


christian anarchism has a long and very interesting history. as long as you’re a decent person and don’t try to shove christianity onto folks (which i assume you wouldn’t, being an anarchist and all), you’re all good.


Anarchism is about freedom, which includes freedom of worship and freedom of religion, or lack of it. What anrchy is opposed to (might not apply to christian anarchism, I'm not familiar with them) is church as a hierarchical entity, and someone or something imposing his or her religion to someone else


Political and economic beliefs are fundamentally philosophical and comparable to religion. Anarchism would have no problem with a large church, but there’s risk of power consolidation there. In the middle ages, there was an instance in France where two popes commanded armies against one another. Doh!


nothing wrong with it. it's just a little contradictory. refusal to submit to one authority in 1 breath, acceptance to submit to authority in another. now granted, that other authority is a **god**. but still.


no, you can be whatever you want in an anarchist society, as long as you don’t enforce your beliefs on others


Defending any of the religions of the book is no different than defending Nazis.


There is not. Where there is, is when one's religion is used to control those outside oneself. A personal choice, not an ultimatum. I do not agree with a lot of anti-Christian comments here. I believe seeking to abolish religion is gross. Unless another is inquiring you on your religion, you shouldn't push it upon them. I understand the resentment, and I believe if you too in turn understand much of the hesitation here you can be both a better anarchist and Christian. As a trans guy, Christian's weaponizing their beliefs and spreading disinfo is my current biggest issue where I live. However, being a Buddhist ancom, I've met plenty of Quaker anarchist allies who are actively fighting for my rights. The Methodist curch is currently splitting between chuds and those who seek to progress and embrace lgbt people. I think being a good Christian means being Jesus-like: encompassing the positive ideals of your religion. It is similar in Buddhism - where there is issues like most religions but as a Buddhist I should focus on progressing my religion, not clinging to traditions that hurt others (and that old monks simply want to be kept because tradition - that is clinging!) And above all not pushing my religion upon others but using it in a way that can be a force for good. No gods, no masters. But if you as an individual decide for yourself, that is a personal choice and you should use that choice to be a force of good within your communities.


Different anarchists will have different opinions. But what’s anarchism without different opinions? It’s up to you in the end, regardless of what others think. Christian anarchism isn’t unheard of, but it is controversial.


Christian - Anarchist. Perfect example of an oxymoron.


r/radical_christianity r/rebel_christianity I hope I spelled the names of the subs correctly.


This gets posted in virtually every single anarchist subreddit a million times an hour please for the love of fuck just look it up Also some of these subs have “Christian anarchist” as flare? This is a regular discussion I’m basically the only person in the world that doesn’t love Christians. Y’all are literally welcomed everywhere on planet earth and probably also on mars too at this point so like I promise y’all are good


Religion is like a huge troobbing cock its fine to have one and be proud of it just don't take it out in public and shove it in faces of those who did not ask for that


Well if you think there’s a supreme being that governs all existence, some anarchists might have a problem with that. But as long as you’re not hurting anybody and you keep your religion to yourself then I think you’re fine to believe whatever you want.


There is nothing wrong with being Christian and an anarchist!


I have no problem with spiritual or religious folk, but im sure there will contradictions in their faith once revolution strikes, im sure the pope wont exactly support an anarchist uprising and will divide Christians. And then they will make a new sect; as christians do


Depends on how you define Christian. Anarchists oppose all systems of illegitimate hierarchies, which is most, and thus anarchists oppose religious bosses and bossing institutions called churches. So, if your Christianity lacks bosses and bossing around, that is, it's about a belief system only, without bosses, then it's free speech and free thought. There is such a thing as Christian anarchism but it is very distant from conventional, oppressive, scamming institutions which call themselves Christian. The conventional religious systems are brazen scams in which the fears of people are used to exploit them and to steal money from believers. If your Christianity lacks the theft of money and property, and doesn't employ fear as a means to control people, if your Christianity is only a belief system, then beliefs are free speech/thought. --- The institutional Christian church is a huge deplorable scam. -- - There is no such thing as "Christian." It's necessary to define what you mean by the words you use.


I used to say God is an anarchist. Which isn't really right but also can work. I think that as an anarchist you can accept that there is a transcendent morality and even if God set the rules you are free to break them. To can conceptualize God more as a rule maker than enforcer and set him apart from all worldly hierarchies as the concept of submitting to the will God is pretty different than submitting to governments, bosses or whatever. It's really just how you conceptualize what God is and how that fits into your idea of hierarchies. But Christianity and anarchism can coexist but some bugs would probably have to be worked out.


Nope. Just don’t be a dick about it like forcing people to adopt those ideals or guilt tripping them into adopting it. To me Christianity kind of adopts an anarchist stance in my opinion by stating that the only authority we have to answer to is God and no one else.