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East Slavic countries/East Slavs - opinions?

East Slavic countries/East Slavs - opinions?

Logical-Crazy8749

Europe's second most dysfunctional family


Velikikuronja

Lol who's first?


Logical-Crazy8749

Our Balkan family of course


Detergent5879

Belarus Is a literal dictatorship, the last in Europe, Russia is a narrow autocratizing oligarchy, and Ukraine barely has a democracy. What the fuck are you on to think that that's better than the Balkans....


Logical-Crazy8749

Memes


8008Y_ENJOYER

He didn't say they're better, he said they're less dysfunctional, which is true. There is a lot more chaos in the Balkans.


Detergent5879

they are not less dysfuctional 😆 As someone from the balkans who watches hellla lot of russia related content and reads news about russia, and had a russian acquaintance from Rostov na Donu (which was getting occupied at that time lmfao). That is except if you define list as dysfunctional as more stable, because yes a dictatorship and a full oligarchy are more stable than a mixed regime or a flawed democracy.


Velikikuronja

Hmm balkan is way better than those 3 mentioned countries....


MrLazyTiger

Agreed 100%


Logical-Crazy8749

Well true, we don't literally invade eachother anymore but it's still a meme to call the Balkans the biggest dysfunctional family


8008Y_ENJOYER

That's not true. The East Slav relations are easy to understand, Russia and Belarus love each other and hate Ukraine. Now the Balkan relations, let me try to explain. Turkey and Greece hate each other, but Turkey and Bulgaria love each other but hate each other. Bulgaria and Greece are mortal enemies but they stand united against Turkey, who Bulgaria loves. Bulgarians claim Macedonians are their brothers but there's not anyone in the world they hate most. Romania did Bulgaria dirty but for some reason, they are still gay lovers. Moldova is Romania and acknowledges it but refuses to go through with it. Serbia and Romania are also gay lovers but Bulgaria and Serbia hate each other so there's a weird love triangle. Serbia and Bulgaria claim to hate each other but are still ''brothers in christ'', however Serbia tried to stop Bulgaria from getting independence from a Muslim empire. Macedonians hate everything and everyone, there is not a single neighbour they can tolerate. Kosovo is a mystery to me because I'm Bulgarian but I support its independence fully because it spites Serbs. Bosnia hates Serbia but tolerates Croatia I think? Croatia and Bulgaria have a silent acknowledgement of each other as they are both nazis. Slovenia only cares about catboys. This is getting really long... I could still go on


Papa_smurf_7528

Mamu ti jebem za kosovo ljubi te brat


Atheististhisit

I am not from the Balkans but my head spun reading it.


Polaroid1999

But we are a "family" (Vin Diesel voice). Those vodka zombies aren't 😎


Gibovich

Would you consider the Caucuses apart of Europe? And if so is it more dysfunctional then the Balkans?


Logical-Crazy8749

I wouldn't culturally associate them with Europe even though they are geographically speaking a part of it but yes, they seem more dysfunctional than the Balkans


matrixen01

The people of the Caucasus are ethnically and culturally *both* Southeastern European and West Asian, so yes.


Tengri_99

Idk cool people I guess


neoniki

They use cyrillic, so I'd say based


OeroLegend

Базирано 💪


neoniki

Правилно


MikKosTim

Обосновано


George_noob

Very democratic...


gumbii_was_taken

*gun shot sounds*


RealViktorius

Where is he? I looked everywhere, can’t find hik anymore. Probably just on vacation


TheMighty25

Good people, messed up politics. So like us.


VerkoProd

my closest friend is ukrainian, great people


Daniels_2003

"Corporate wants you to find the difference between this picture, this picture and this picture" "They're the same picture"


Daniels_2003

Ok jokes aside, all my respects to the Ukrainians for being a bulwark against Russian agression. Brave lads. Their name's meaning still holds true, even in an era of different allies and enemies. I think all European countries should be supporting them


Dornanian

I don’t have any issue with the people, but the countries…oh boi. Russia is by far the country that fucked us the most historically. Ukraine was kind of neutral until they passed their laws that ban education in minority language that affect the Romanian population there as well. Nothing to say about Belarus other than the North Korea of Europe


alexGski

They are also trying to destroy the bulgarian community there as well...


PanzerFoster

They've basically targeted every minority living in the country, and accuse any motherland nation that points this out of conspiring with the Russians


MrLazyTiger

Agreed. People are fine, the countries are terrible


MrLazyTiger

How did you add two flairs? I wanna add the EU flair to my Slo too:)


matrixen01

As a Ukrainian-Russian, agreed LOL. As I like to say, I love the ethnic culture and people of the countries, but despise the horrible governments, especially the Russian government. Someone needs to assassinate fucking Putler already.


J_Illyria

Russians make great AKs 😁


x0mi4

I'm Russian and I'm not make AKs


makahlj8

Also, Russians make great vodka.


J_Illyria

You might not personally but other Russians do loll


Kev-1-n

Yeah but the bulgarian ones are closer and easier to get


J_Illyria

The Russian and Bulgarian AKs are the smoothest shooting rifles I ever shot. That muzzle brake makes a big difference with recoil control.


Kev-1-n

I wont even lie, i fucking love aks


liubodimakaCS

Based Arsenal vs cringe Kalashnikov


8008Y_ENJOYER

Ukraine good, everything else bad.


VENEPS88

holy based


Bogdan_Bob

South Slavs > East Slavs


8008Y_ENJOYER

Even though East Slavs are the most ethnically slavic. I feel like south slavs embody the slavic spirit more. Western Slavs are... weird. They embody hot languages though (have you heard polish? sheeeeeesh)


CoolSwa

Great countries, been to Belarus and it was wonderful.


MrLazyTiger

I like the people, but the countries have some serious issues. That said, each of them could be pretty great if they made one change: Russia should make a stronger alliance with the west and further distance itself from China. It should also seriously fight the organized crime it's riddled with Ukraine should become more independent from Russia. (More like Russia should leave it alone, but then my comment wouldn't have this sexy one change per country structure, now would it?) And Belarus needs to stop being Belarus lol. Rn it's doing everything a country can do wrong. A dictatorship, no democracy, no freedom of expression, no private enterprise, terrible animal protection and legislation. One of the worst countries on the planet.


alpidzonka

Um, animals? That's your biggest concern in Belarus?


MrLazyTiger

Tell me more about its other problems. I might change my mind. As of now, I've mostly stumbled upon their animal treatment and it's hard to imagine that the humans there suffer more than the animals. Whichever suffers more is my main concern


alpidzonka

Pretty sure animals suffer more than humans, like they get killed on an industrial scale. You value their lives as identical to humans?


MrLazyTiger

I'll explain, but please do read the whole comment to really understand my point of view:) Humans have more complex understanding of our own emotions. Suffering is both a physical and emotiomal thing, so it's somewhat reasonable to assume that the same action done to a human will cause him/her more suffering than that action would to an animal. That said, if, hypothetically, we were to inflict precisely the same amount of suffering to a human and a non-human animal, the two actions would be equally wrong and immoral. "You value their lives as identical to humans?" Value is subjective, so I leave it out of the equation. I view it consequentially: the more suffering an action causes against an organism's will, the more wrong and immoral that action is. Otherwise that's just subjective species bias. The ability to suffer is morally relevant, the rest are superficial factors like color, the amount of legs it walks on..which are irrelevant. The only difference being a human vs a non-human makes is the human's ability to presumably suffer more intensely than most other animals. That said, suffering vs loss of life are two different categories. While an equal amount of suffering caused to a cow vs a human is equally wrong, the same doesn't apply to the act of killing: A human has a concept of death beyond that of a cow. A human can fear a death that may happen 10 years from now. A human also has long-term hopes, dreams, goals, which a cow does not. So while inflicting an equal amount of suffering to either, is equally immoral, killing a human is still worse than killing a member of any other animal species.


alpidzonka

Right, I get that. Well, apart from animals, there's violence and oppression against LGBT people, journalists, there's domestic violence, the death penalty. A whole host of human rights abuses, check [here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Belarus#Freedoms)


MrLazyTiger

Thanks for broadening my horizons bro:) The human rights abuses in Belaris sound genuinely atrocious. Everything I hate. Freedom of expression is such an important right, but it seems censorship is rampant there. The only thing I at least partly like out of this is the death penality, but only in cases where guilt of murder, violent robbery, torture, or other horrendous crimes is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. That said, the first person I'd want executed is the dictator himself lol


Polaroid1999

> A dictatorship, no democracy, no freedom of expression, no private enterprise, terrible animal protection and legislation. One of the worst countries on the planet. Just say dictatorship - it sums it up pretty well 😄


MrLazyTiger

True lol


tentaclius

Belarusian here. Agree 100% with what you said, yet there are a few things a person not caring about socio-political issues might find appealing. Very clean. Much less litter the streets. Bank transactions are super quick and the bank servises are very cheap. Very good internet banking. Same for cellphone service: good speed and coverage and quite inexpensive. Lot of widely available city services: Uber, car-sharing, e-scooter sharing, bike sharing. Inexpensive public transport and fuel in general. With that said, I can't imagine returning to Belarus any time soon, which is very sad.


GRIG2410

No alliance with Russia before they start to seriously democratize and give up their chauvinistic, expansionist foreign policy.


MrLazyTiger

I agree tbh.. by alliance I mean the kind of alliance the West & the USSR had during WW2. China being the Nazis/Axis here. Once they're put in their place, Russia's belliegerence should be next on the list of shit to clean


caromi3

Lol, so basically "we hate you, but we're granting you the *privilege* of antagonising China on our behalf". Yeah, I think that if you want to put China in their place, wherever that is, you can do it yourself. I'd prefer to sit that one out.


MrLazyTiger

I mean Russia's the wan sharing China's border, Russia's the one who's gonna need to face China more directly. An alliance of a stronger country would benefit you guys more, if anything


caromi3

China's ambitions are directed to the South. Taiwan, South China Sea, those are going to to clash with the US & Co. There's an element of wishful thinking in the idea that China would rather choose to pick a useless fight with Russia and they can't work on all fronts.


MrLazyTiger

That tasty Siberia tho


pakna25

I don't know much how animals are treated in Belarus, but I do know they have more serious issues than that.


MrLazyTiger

Tell me more


pakna25

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/europes-last-dictator-the-rise-and-possible-fall-of-alexander-lukashenko/ https://youtu.be/mSnZp7_TM28


MrLazyTiger

More reason to hate Lukashenko. Censorship, no freedom of expression, no private enterprise, no democracy.. that combined with what I mentioned means that Belarus' system is the antithesis of everything I consider good. If Alexander Lukashenko was tortured to death, I would watch the video of that on repeat while watching popcorn.


Poorphyrogenitus

They become very friendly once you tell them you're Greek. Especially Russians and Ukrainians. I like them as people.


misfitinlife

Again,why is belarus even a thing ?


kaubojdzord

Because Belorussians exist.


Polaroid1999

It's been a thing for a long while. Google Polotsk


Cefalopodul

Eirope's Slitherin


Vatrokion

Crimea is same as Kosovo which is highlight of western hypocrisy, besides that am not a fan of none of those three countries.


ibeelive

Does this look [the same](https://images.app.goo.gl/yGvj4XEMEfUbTWvr5) to you?


Vatrokion

You know what am talking about but yeah act ignorant


Kralj_Srbljem

I disagree that the cases are the same. I think you can respect the territorial integrity of Serbia while simultaneously acknowledging Russia’s right to Crimea.


immortaltrout27

Both are instances of self determination. Kosovo's history is very wierd and different than that of Crimea.


[deleted]

Ah, the democratic triangle of Europe. Sounds weird saying this while being Albanian myself lmao


No_Arm9832

Well my grandmother is from the Ukraine so yeah positive feel sorry for the people of Belarus same with the people of Russia


UkraineWithoutTheBot

It's 'Ukraine' and not 'the Ukraine' [[Merriam-Webster](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Ukraine)] [[BBC Styleguide](https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsstyleguide/u)] [[Reuters Styleguide](https://handbook.reuters.com/index.php?title=U#Ukraine)] ^(Beep boop I’m a bot)


Dancing_machine101

I wonder how will does countries look pollitically when their dictators are dead (not talking about ukranian gov as idk what that looks like)


GumiB

Russia must deoccupy Crimea and rest of Ukraine. Russia’s actions are from my perspective completely unacceptable.


[deleted]

Yeah, in a hour or so i expect breaking news about Russians pulling their troops after Putin read your comment.


no-bs10

Russia does not occupy any other part of Ukraine. Those are Ukrainians who side with Russia. As far as Crimea is concerned, it was historically always a part of Russia until Krushchev gave it to Ukraine for appeasement.


GumiB

> Russia does not occupy any other part of Ukraine. Those are Ukrainians who side with Russia. It absolutely does occupy Ukraine. > As far as Crimea is concerned, it was historically always a part of Russia until Krushchev gave it to Ukraine for appeasement. 1783 to 1954 (170 years) is very far from always.


Dornanian

And prior to 1783 it was Ottoman or, to be more precise, Tatar. Ukrainians are the last group on this list to claim that land. Mommy Russia gifted them enough territories from other countries at the end of WW2


Kralj_Srbljem

Anyone who says Crimea belongs to Ukraine is either uneducated or arguing in bad faith. That’s the simple truth 🤷‍♂️


kaubojdzord

By international law it is part of Ukraine, so you can't really claim that everyone who thinks that is uneducated or in bad faith.


no-bs10

Aside from the Crimea issue. Which other parts of Ukraine does Russia occupy? Point being, Crimea was part of Russia before it was EVER a part of Ukraine.


Dornanian

I assume you are also in favour of Serbia getting back Kosovo if you wish Crimea rejoined Ukraine?


hellothere66420

i am


Miloslolz

Least based Croatian.


Princgovozdenogkurca

Based Department? We are seeing levels of baseness thought unachievable before.


HumanSpecimenOnEarth

Utemeljeno.


perkonja

Probably no


GumiB

I don’t see any similarity between Russian occupation of Ukraine and Kosovo’s independence.


Dornanian

How come you don’t? You either support the right of self-determination or you don’t. The majority of the people in Kosovo do not wish to be a part of Serbia, just like the majority of the people in Crimea do not wish to be a part of Ukraine


[deleted]

>just like the majority of the people in Crimea do not wish to be a part of Ukraine Are there any non-russian sources that prove this was true before the annexation?


Dornanian

I guess they did not care as much before 2014 since the relations between Russia and Ukraine were good. However, when things got nasty, it is obvious they would choose Russia. Hell, plenty of Ukrainians choose Russia too


[deleted]

There was supposed to be a referendum in Crimea right? But based on my understanding it is not accepted by most countries due to extensive irregularities. >plenty of Ukrainians choose Russia too Why though? Isn't Russia a lot more authoritarian and corrupt than Ukraine?


Dornanian

I mean I am sure Russians faked the referendum to get 98%, but I am also sure it would’ve easily been somewhere in the 70-80% range. As to why Ukrainians prefer Russia…that is a hard question to answer. I guess sharing a common history for so long?


GumiB

I don’t see the similarity. Ukraine is occupied by Russia, Kosovo isn’t.


Dornanian

Ukraine is not occupied by anyone. Crimea is really not occupied either, do you honestly believe a Russian-majority Crimea wants to be part of Ukraine? The only difference here is that Russia could incorporate the territory on its own, while Albania needed foreign intervention and only an independent Kosovo was obtained, not full incorporation


MV7300

Don't waste words on him, his mindset is only Russia bad America good lol


GumiB

> Ukraine is not occupied by anyone. It absolutely is occupied by Russia.


Dornanian

Ukraine is an independent country, I do not see Russian tanks rolling in Kiev.


GumiB

I was never speaking about all of Ukraine.


Dornanian

Then use the correct term, Crimea. Crimea’s population wants to be a part of Russia, anyone knows that.


no-bs10

No it is not. Crimea was ONLY given to Ukraine during the Soviet era as it was thought that Ukraine would always be a part of the USSR. When Ukraine signalled that it was willing to join NATO, that was the last straw for the Crimean's. They declared that they wanted to rejoin with Russia. There were many border issues and territorial issues with the collapse of the Soviet Union. Unfortunately, many of them were not properly resolved at the time due to how quickly the collapse happened and how big the USSR was. Crimea was one of those issues.


HarryDeekolo

Russia: great women and literature. Ukraine: great women and boxing fighters. Belarus: great women (I guess) and...don't really know what to add, great unofficial anthem: https://youtu.be/q1VjgKsnEKw


HomieCreeper420

Fuck Russia and Belarus. Ukraine is a little more cool


Traditional_Ease_436

gypsies take it easy


VENEPS88

hate russia, belarus like ukraine, simple as


JustVibinDoe

I like Ukraine, I dislike Russia and its puppet Belarus.


Velikikuronja

ukraine is russian karaboga


that_nice_guy_784

they stole our land, looking at you Ukraine


VENEPS88

you mean russia? since it was under ussr influence


outlanderfhf

I think he also refers to events post ww1 with Bucovina and Moldova, attempted anexations.


Kev-1-n

meh


babybabybabybabyblue

all of these are dictatorships and are corrupt.


Dry_Satisfaction_841

I never liked them.


DeliciousCabbage22

Why?


Dry_Satisfaction_841

Most Russians can’t even find Serbia on a world map. Very cold, arrogant people. Ukrainians like Croats and [dislike Serbs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VSVi0-E9T4) . Belarus does not seem to exist. We literally don’t know anything about each other. East Slavic women are associated with prostitution in many countries. East Slavic men are heavy drinkers. I’ve never understood their mentality.


Traditional_Ease_436

it's funny to hear this from the southern Slavs only at night prostitutes are walking around the streets and drug-dealing and a bunch of gypsies, you live with stereotypes from the 90s, however everything that you described just fits the description of the Balkans and neighboring countries, in Belarus heavy fines for drinking alcohol on the street, in Ukraine and Russia as well ... you just slept nonsense


IAm_Always_Correct

Depressed shithole but ok


Traditional_Ease_436

Slovenia?


IAm_Always_Correct

No eastern europe


azzurro99

The real and best Slavs


no-bs10

How are they the 'Real Slavs'?


DeliciousCabbage22

i guess he meant they are the most Slavic genetically alongside Poles


pakna25

You seem to know a thing or two about genetics. Would you be kind and in short terms tell me how we South Slavs stand in the "Slavometer". I know we mixed with a lot of people when we came from the north. I am interested to know how much it shaped us in the long run. Thanks.


DeliciousCabbage22

Bosnians are on the more Slavic side of things, either in between Croats and Serbs or straight up Croatian like. As for South Slavs in general, it varies, on one end you have Slovenes who plot in the same cluster as Czechs and Slovaks, on the other end you have Macedonians and Eastern Bulgarians who are closer to Mainland Greece and Albania than to even Serbia. This is how much Slavic ancestry i have found South Slavs to have from using different Calculators, take them with a grain of salt, they should be able to give you a general idea though. Bosnians and Most Croats are about 65% Slavic on average i have found. Serbs seem to be around 55% Eastern Bulgarians and Macedonians around 40% Western Bulgarians and Montenegrins around 50% As for Slovenes and Kajkavian speaking Croats, they are by far the northernmost Balkan Slavs genetically but things get more complicated here because they appear to have some Germanic ancestry as well, i'd say their overall "northern" ancestry, Slavic and Germanic combined is more than 70%


pakna25

Thanks. I am planning to do a DNA test to find out for myself.


DeliciousCabbage22

Ok, if you do and you have any questions send them my way, ill probably be able to answer them


pakna25

Great. Thanks 👍🏻


8008Y_ENJOYER

>in the other end you have Macedonians and Eastern Bulgarians who are closer to Mainland Greece and Albania than to even Serbia. What >This is how much Slavic ancestry i have found South Slavs to have from using different Calculators, take them with a grain of salt, they should be able to give you a general idea though. What >Eastern Bulgarians and Macedonians around 40% What


DeliciousCabbage22

Exactly what i wrote, no need to explain it further


8008Y_ENJOYER

What you wrote makes no sense


DeliciousCabbage22

it's supported by genetic evidence, whether it makes sense to you or not is simply irrelevant


8008Y_ENJOYER

Link the evidence LOL


RealViktorius

If we south slavs are more mixed compared to the east ones. Doesn’t that just make that the definition of south slavic and us more slavic? Or am i overthinking shit


pakna25

I don't understand your question entirely. I'll try to answer anyway. There are no "pure Slavs" today like it was 1000 years ago. When we parted our ways every group encountered indigenous population in their now homeland. We mixed heavily with Illiryians, East Slavs with various Asian people and the West Slavs with Germanic peoples. The languages remained very Slavic in it's core and some traditions remained as well. These are the only things we have in common with them today.


DeliciousCabbage22

>There are no "pure Slavs" today Poles, some Russians and many Belarusians are pretty close to being that, some of them are mixed with Baltic people but Balts and Slavs are (or at least were) so closely related i think it's not fair comparing this admixture to the Finnic admixture found in northern russians or the paleo-balkan admixture found in South Slavs >East Slavs with various Asian people Not really tbh, other than Uralic admixed NW Russians most East Slavs do not appear to have signifcant East Eurasian ancestry >and the West Slavs with Germanic peoples. Slovaks and especially Czechs certainly did, Poles not so much, they appear to be the most Slavic of all Slavs genetically


8008Y_ENJOYER

He doesn't. In the reply he gave you he was very clearly arguing out of agenda. Anyway, to fix your misconception, there's no ''slavometer'' as there is no Slavic ethnicity, it's a language group. If you try to identify Slavs you'll end up saying that Hungarians and Romanians are slavic as well. To kind of answer your question, all the south slavic nations plus Romania share genes mostly with other Eastern Europeans and slightly with neighboring nations. (i.e Czechs share a lot with Germans)


no-bs10

That doesn't make you the most Real Slavs though. Slavdom is culture, not genetics.


CoolSwa

Poles, Belarusians and Ukrainians are the most slavic slavs. Russians has a lot of Siberian, Turkic and Baltic DNA tho.


DeliciousCabbage22

>Poles, Belarusians and Ukrainians are the most Slavic Slavs Ukrainians from the Carpathians seem to not be typical East Slavs genetically, this is because they have mixed with Romanians > Russians has a lot of Siberian, Turkic and Baltic DNA tho. Baltic exists in Belarus an NE Poland too, i think it's not worth counting Baltic as a foreign element in Slavic populations, the early Slavs and Balts were very closely related, this admixture barely changes anything, it's not comparable to the Finnic in NW Russians or the Paleo-Balkan in Balkan Slavs. I really think it's not fair to say no Russian is a pure Slav because many Russians are almost fully Slavic, i am talking about Russians from Places like Smolensk and Belgorod who are no different from Belarusians and Ukrainians genetically


ermir2846sys

In general I think we did not properly analyze the fall of communism and in particular we did not analyze it in Russia. The former KGB has an iron grip on Russia and uses poor Belarus and Ukraine as buffer. These countries will never fare well as long as we do not address the root issue