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mike_pants

Literally had someone on reddit try and use "They DID abolish slavery! Being a prisoner is not the same as being a slave!" Tell me you've never actually read the Constitution without telling me so on and et cetera.


_Silly_Wizard_

And for those of you who think (thanks to tv) that inmate labor is paid - it is very *very* frequently not. I'm sure every state is different, but in some places (Florida, of course) the SINGLE job that comes with an hourly wage is manning the canteen. So...two inmates get to make like $1.15 an hour.


Fuhgly

And do they really even make that money or does it go on their books?


_Silly_Wizard_

That's a good question.


SadPandaDale

Depending on the prison it can go to either. Also depends on the person and what support they have on the outside. In total theres a lot of swinging for this or that which depend on the individual's circumstances. The paid labor part usually goes to the housing books so you dont end up owing a couple grand to the state for being incarcerated after you get out


SonOfAhuraMazda

Wait.....what? Pay the state for incarcerating me? You just made that up


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SpectacularOtter

Did you damage any state property?


SpectacularOtter

Each state, federal, and county agencies are different. My state inmates make about $2.35 a day for 4hrs of work. Working double counts as overtime. In my state that are not allowed to have external bank accounts. Only allowed to have “books”. There is no money allowed in our state prison.


Fit_Platform_7436

it goes on their books, but that is where it has to be, for them to spend it, the stores take what you buy off your books, some county jails allow you to carry money around, but i dont know of any prison where that happens.


mssaturnalia9

Same people who got mad at NPR tweeting The Declaration of Independence


KingOfTheCouch13

Damn so I guess the Jews forced into labor camps weren’t slaves during WWII. They were just prisoners. TIL.


Fruity-Grebbles

But... That wasn't in the US? I'm not defending the prison slavery, I just don't see how this is relevant.


KingOfTheCouch13

Its comparing the US prison system to Nazi war tactics. Both imprison people and made them slaves. Hell the only difference is that the US isn’t actively trying to kill their prisoners.


BILLCLINTONMASK

Yeah this was a great trick they pulled. They "abolished" slavery by making it constitutionally legal...


PreOpTransCentaur

The police? You mean the institution that literally started as slave patrol? Oh goddamn, just color me shocked they're in control of continuing the enslavement.


fpcoffee

Police: *busts in* I heard there’s some colored folk here?


ComeBackToDigg

Several Southern jurisdictions still have Sundown laws.


maux_zaikq

Thank you! Literally this is my go-to “Fuck your Constitution” argument. Like, don’t try to get me to defend your document that doesn’t even defend my humanity.


Fabulous-Path-3234

Excellent point! If you haven't done so already, there's a documentary on Amazon Prime titled, "The Cotton Pickin Truth." It interviews African-Americans who were and still are enslaved on Mississippi plantations. The primary person interviewed's story is absolutely identical to my grandparents' experience when they escaped from a Mississippi cotton plantation in 1958 with two babies and being hunted by a lynch mob. When I hear European-Americans say, "slavery ended 200 years ago," I provide them a detailed correction, that always shuts them ups. It wasn't "200 years" and we were still enslaved longer than emancipated. The 13The 13th Amendment did not absolutely abolish slavery, rather it simply established new parameters by creating an informal slave system. This is due to the clause in Section I: "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction." This was a comprise between Northern and Southern states creating new avenues for reenslaving African-Americans. Subsequently, copious laws were enacted and enforced targeting African-Americans that criminalized them and returned them to bondage. For example, Vagrancy Laws stipulating ANY African-American adult or child unable to provide proof of gainful employment (to a White person) would be charged and imprisoned. Also, Peonage Laws wherein ANY African-American allegedly owing a White person debt would be incarcerated (the standard of proof was merely an allegation). Also, civil disobedience wherein an African-American allegedly offended the social norms by offending an European-American, whether by refusing to move out of their way, not addressing them by "sir/ma'am," or exercising their dignity and acting "uppity," or owned land desired by Whites. These laws were not exclusive to adults, but applied to children as well. Yet, countless of African-American children were forcibly kidnapped from their parents and forced into "apprenticeship" to European-Americans for years, even decades. Recent African-American landowners and families then had their property "confiscated" and sold to Whites for pennies on the dollar, not seeing a cent. In either instance, incarceration meant certain enslavement, as African-American prisoners were forced into "convict leasing." Meaning, the local law enforcement would "lease" the prisoners (for a fee) to White farmers, plantations, households, mining company, etc., where they were literally worked to death. As the prisoners were now "owned" their enslaver would "rent" them out to others for a fee as well. The average lifespan being 3 years, as there was little incentive to keep them healthy or alive since 1880 millions of African-Americans were impressed and the supply was abundant. These practices endured into the late 20th Century, but enslaving African-Americans in other capacities on Southern plantations remain today. Worse, Southern legislators are perfectly aware and refuse to address the matter of modern slavery. th Amendment did not absolutely abolish slavery, rather it simply established new parameters by creating an informal slave system. This is due to the clause in Section I: "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction." This was a comprise between Northern and Southern states creating new avenues for reenslaving African-Americans. Subsequently, copious laws were enacted and enforced targeting African-Americans that criminalized them and returned them to bondage. For example, Vagrancy Laws stipulating ANY African-American adult or child unable to provide proof of gainful employment (to a White person) would be charged and imprisoned. Also, Peonage Laws wherein ANY African-American allegedly owing a White person debt would be incarcerated (the standard of proof was merely an allegation). Also, civil disobedience wherein an African-American allegedly offended the social norms by offending an European-American, whether by refusing to move out of their way, not addressing them by "sir/ma'am," or exercising their dignity and acting "uppity," or owned land desired by Whites. These laws were not exclusive to adults, but applied to children as well. Yet, countless of African-American children were forcibly kidnapped from their parents and forced into "apprenticeship" to European-Americans for years, even decades. Recent African-American landowners and families then had their property "confiscated" and sold to Whites for pennies on the dollar, not seeing a cent. In either instance, incarceration meant certain enslavement, as African-American prisoners were forced into "convict leasing." Meaning, the local law enforcement would "lease" the prisoners (for a fee) to White farmers, plantations, households, mining company, etc., where they were literally worked to death. As the prisoners were now "owned" their enslaver would "rent" them out to others for a fee as well. The average lifespan being 3 years, as there was little incentive to keep them healthy or alive since 1880 millions of African-Americans were impressed and the supply was abundant. These practices endured into the late 20th Century, but enslaving African-Americans in other capacities on Southern plantations remain today. Worse, Southern legislators are perfectly aware and refuse to address the matter of modern slavery. Slavery still impacts us, especially concerning how we treat our children, e.g. whipping them, telling them to stay in a child's (i.e. slaves) place, etc. We treat our children exactly how the slaveholders and European-American society treated us. Consequently, it's causing enormous damage to countless generations, the "multigenerational curse."


homemaker1

It used to be considered a living document. Now it's The Bible, apparently.


BlackManWorking

And THAT shit really grinds my gears. We are NOT a Christian nation no matter how much they try. I would love for someone to push being a Muslim as much as they push the Bible. They would shit themselves.


weed_fart

"but the founding fathers were-" 300 YEARS AGO.


philosiraptor

They weren't, though. They were mostly deists!


bohanmyl

A fucking document written in the 1950s would be wildly irrelevant to base your entire life on yet people insist we base our whole society on things written 200+ years ago and whenever the fuck the bible was made.


homemaker1

It's an utterly human thing to do, to find any means to justify one's will. Saying that this is a Christian nation is just one of those things. The founding fathers would probably have their own words to say about that, and those words would likely not align with the religious right's interpretation of their intentions. The Christians are generally force-fed the concept that everyone who doesn't pretend to believe what they believe is evil/wrong. That process of thought breeds all sorts of behavior. Intolerance is ingrained in them.


BlackManWorking

Unfortunate but very true!


ShittyExchangeAdmin

They had a lot to say back then about it. That’s why separation of the church and state is, hypothetically, a thing.


sheek360

If church and state aren’t going to finally be separated. We will absolutely see things get worse!


BlackManWorking

No lie!


fxkyourcupcake

It just shows me that no “Christian” can recite & refer to scriptures that they haven’t memorized to throw in peoples faces. Ask someone, in person, a random line and hell, even give them 3 minutes to respond. They. Can’t. Not at all.


BlackManWorking

This is very accurate. Half the shit they spew doesn’t add up to what the Bible says. I’m not an expert myself and don’t claim to be but I’ve seen on many occasions where a Christians action doesn’t line up with what was said in the book. Just another frustration.


sheek360

When our founding fathers committed treason cuz they didn’t want to fuck with the British anymore. The constitution was born. This allowed them to legitimize taking power away from the monarchy, giving it to themselves and allowing them to get away with it Read the constitution with that in mind. It reads like a room full of guilty mf’s trying to get away with what they did. Hell. The second amendment was meant to legitimize rich white people shooting poor white people. For the sake of shutting down all the uprisings. This cat named Shay hated how these vets who fought for Washington had their land seized because they couldn’t pay taxes. Hence shays rebellion happened. The treasonous founding fathers were so afraid it would happen again. They created the second amendment. To legitimize brutality. Black brown and native Americans weren’t allowed firearms. In some cases and in some instances they were. Only under super specific conditions. And even then, there was no concealing. Powder was inventoried like a mofo. And was far more regulated vs today. Hence the founding fathers not even worried about minorities packing heat.


BlackManWorking

Great take! And honestly, this is another reason I started packing. At this point we are playing the cards they dealt us. Whether it’s guns or starting a business for tax loopholes, I’m in it. I was done sitting on the sidelines being screwed around every corner.


sheek360

I do wish u the best bro 👍🏽


BlackManWorking

You too!


sheek360

Thnx


techn9neiskod

Educate a brother about the tax thing..


theseabeast

To add to this: British abolitionists LAMBASTED "American patriots" for holding a paper that said "all men created equal" in one hand and having a slave whip in the other at the time.


sheek360

Yup. Americas foundation is quite dense with hypocrisy. No doubt.


GolfBaller17

Historical materialism stays winning. 😤


CaesarsMilkyGoat

Literally millions of people, even today: “ 🤷‍♂️I don’t see the problem.” SCOTUS, today: “we see the problem. Shoulda never added in that whole “no slavery” thing. Don’t worry tho, it’s on our docket.”


ameddin73

You joke, but some of Justice Alito's opinion makes it very clear that they intend to abolish every right they possibly can that isn't in the first 8 amendments. Slavery is 13.


CaesarsMilkyGoat

That’s why I said it.


fpcoffee

also looking less and less like a joke


Avenger772

But that's the point! It's meant to be updated. The fact that the last time we had a amendment was 1992 is fucking abhorrent. This shit should be updated YEARLY if need be. One would hape all the shit happening now makes people realize how fragile this fucking democracy is and how what we can do to make it stronger.


Ezra611

Needs to be reviewed every year with recommendations given, and then those are voted on the next year.


northforthesummer

Why the fuck does anyone think a document that's 200+ years old and made by a handful of disgruntled individuals still is 100% relevant today?


NineteenAD9

Because it was written by people who look like them


kingcalifornia

Because they think a book written 2000+ years ago should govern the entire planet


theswedishturtle

Republicans and their “original intent.” The original intent was to keep slavery and keep women powerless. Fuck original intent.


45and290

The whole point of an amendment process was to keep the document current with the needs of the people. Boy, did they fuck that up.


melisabyrd

When the Continental Congress was trying to create the DOI and get all 13 colonies to vote to separate from England, the Carolinas wouldn't agree unless slavery was left out. John Adams and Ben Franklin, name dropping here, wanted every man free. That's a simple explanantion.


anonsharksfan

And it took another seven amendments after that to say women are people


thewildacct

Mexico made their constitution a few decades later and outlawed slavery directly in it. This was in 1824. USA's redneck founding fathers could never


Jumpy-Context6073

Expecting a government started by rich white men who chose to make slavery legal to ever not be crooked is a dream. Don't matter how much we improve the house if the foundation is crooked the house will all way be crooked. America needs a sledgehammer to break up the foundation and build a new one.


Snoo_70324

I like to narrate the civil rights amendments as if the founding fathers* issue successive challenges to The People: XIII. “Okay, the slaves are free, but that doesn’t mean they’re citizens!” XIV. “Okay, they can be citizens, but that doesn’t mean they can vote!” XV. “Fine we’ll let them vote. At this rate, you might as well let the women vote too!” XIX. “Dammit, I thought we settled this 50 years ago. Don’t you know what sarcasm is?!” *or whoever the real opponents were


BremboBob

Some people say the constitution was a divine document and part of gods plan. Then why did that motherfucker require 27 amendments? You telling me God made 27 mistakes on this ONE document?!


fxkyourcupcake

Nah they’re gonna say the white, straight men CLEARLY misheard . I genuinely could hear Alito fumbling saying some off the wall shit when caught off script and having to say SOMETHING 🙃


postdiluvium

Imagine if that had to be added today. You'd have cable news trying to convince you why slavery is a good thing, a bunch of idiots driving around with slavery = freedom bumper stickers on their trucks, some angry fat white guys with rifles walking into state legislatures talk about how making slavery illegal is an attack on their freedoms, Tucker Carlson just asking questions about if making slavery illegal will bring about communism...


kekehippo

Had to add no slavery (unless incarcerated), voting rights for non-white people. Right to vote for not male people. The Constitution is a living document because in a effective democracy you would UPDATE IT.


tomfoolery72

And accomplishing that took a goddamn civil war. Which was after decades of trying to use “compromise” and “politics” to dance around the nazis aka the south. Yeah but tell me again how this government is so wonderful.


Just_bcoz

It wasn’t. It was made to have revisions made throughout the years and they admit that compared to where the world will be in the future they’re not that advanced and probably wrong.


MFAWG

Well, they didn’t like that second part very much when you get right down to it. That’s what ‘originalism’ really means push come to shove.


Joshua_Todd

No slavery most of the time


Previousman755

Oops!


ShelSilverstain

Had to add in citizenship for non -land owners, even (14th)


Ok_Parsnip_3192

By going to war


Cireclops_LV

A functioning document huh.


KiKiPAWG

It may or may not be outdated... I'm leaning towards may...


shredwards42069

Those people don’t like that part.


landician

Message!


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Boggie135

Some Americans treat it like it’s sacrosanct, it’s gross


23hallowedbethy

It was never a perfect document, but it should be a living document to allow it to function. The portion about slavery is not an indictment on the document. It's an indictment of our society at that time in history. This is different for the Bible, because it was supposedly written by god (who should be perfect and time irrelevant) and is not a living document...immutable.


FOD_Walker

That’s the beauty of the document. We can add things to correct wrongs.


Akinto6

The constitution was never meant to be a finalised document. It's full of contradictions and requires constant revision because ibdependce, freedom and liberty is not black and white.


Curun

But… thats wrong, we added in and codified slavery in the 13th amendment. Thanks to Lincoln and his administration its codified as legal in our highest documents. “except as a punishment for crime”. This is illegal in most first world countries, not the USA. “There hasn't been a full nationwide census of prisons since 2005. But back then, it was estimated that there were nearly 1.5 million incarcerated people working, and that included 600,000 people in the manufacturing sector. At the time, that was more than 4% of all manufacturing jobs in the country.” https://www.npr.org/2020/06/29/884989263/the-uncounted-workforce Thats 100’s of billions$$$$$ of economic activity. USA is a slave economy.


ShittyExchangeAdmin

Technically Mississippi never abolished slavery until the 21st century