Good thoughts man & glad to hear you played the ogs too, but also strong disagree lol
Sr2 had a great open world, especially for the time, & while Santo Ileso was def pretty it felt very dead to me, especially comparatively. Pretty much no buildings were enterable this time around, traffic of npcs was greatly reduced when compared to Stilwater as was the radio because I felt like I was always hearing the same songs compared to the pretty diverse soundtracks of prior entries, was also hoping the reboot would bring back the sr2 feature of buying apartments/customizing the styles in more expanded ways but no luck, clothing customization also felt reduced & led to some weird restrictions such as not being able to change colors, wear a chain with a jacket etc. I rlly gave it a go because I love the series, it just failed to immerse me
And while I totally agree some of the old activities/dialogue hasn't aged well/should be left in past, I feel (like many) that the reboot's tonal shift was way too strong as it's still a game centered around gangs. Gangs are selfish by definition & the og main characters were not good people, they were murderers drug dealers pimps & cop killers, meanwhile the reboot used every opportunity to make its main characters into less edgy more redeemable/charitable heroes when no one asked them to
I respect trying something new & some fresh air was needed, it was just also unf a huge missed opportunity given that we're in somewhat of a golden age of gang tv. Snowfall, Power & all its spinoffs, BMF, Gomorrah, Top Boy, etc none of them about good people but people evidently love it. And SR had the p e r f e c t window given GTA6's delay & Mafia 3's disappointment to release an open world crime game during this gang renaissance, but instead they decided to make the least gang-like gang I've ever seen for reasons unknown
It's weird to me how many people seem to complain about the gangster aspects of the gangster simulator... Nostalgia shouldn't have to make up for "cringe wannabe gangster dialogue" in a game about a guy who wants to be the biggest gangster in the city/world/galaxy... If anything it's the painful attempt to completely avoid that kind of dialogue (outside of mocking it) that puts me off the new game. I don't want Whedon-esque dialogue in my gangsters simulator. I don't need a game to pretend like it's too cool and aloof to be what it is. You want to make a game about a bunch of snarky zillenials quipping their way through an impossibly violent environment and push the meta/irony angle, then that's fine. But you don't get to pretend that it's an improvement to unnamed-protagonist over-the-top gangster simulator it's being meta about.
Also it's downright fuckin' hilarious to me how many people choose some random issue in the games to have a moral quandary.
"Look, I can play a character who steals cars more often than he changes shirts, mows down pedestrians to save a few seconds of driving, kills rivals/cops in numbers high enough to warrant a UN intervention, and wreaks explosive mayhem for a bit of street cred... But driving prostitutes from one pimp to another? That's really outdated and offensive, human trafficking is serious stuff, guys..."
>So, to those people that haven't played the reboot and just keep asking for a remaster of SR2.... just get an XBox and download the original games when they go on sale.
What does wanting a remaster of 2 have to do with not caring for 2022? And what kind of weird fan do you think is sitting there saying "this game is so fantastic I wish they'd remaster it... But screw that game I'm not downloading it"?
>If you didn't have an Xbox 360, you're not an OG fan.
As an "OG fan" as well: if I met someone who only played Saints Row and Saints Row 2 as backwards compatible games on the Xbox1, and still liked them better than 2022, I'd take that as a clear indicator that 2022 clearly got something wrong. This person doesn't have nostalgia for you to blame for them liking the older games: they played a game with zero emotional investment, and found one to better than the other. If this kind of person actually exists, I'd say he's a good reason to look into how much 2022 is being floated by nostalgia for a series it barely resembles. So maybe we should take their input a bit more seriously even if they aren't an "OG fan".
tldr: people thinking the old games were trying too hard are exactly why the new game tries sooo much harder than the old games ever did. Being ironic doesn't make it better, it makes it the Scary Movie of the genre. "I can excuse murder and wanton violence, but moving prostitutes 3 blocks away is where I draw the line". People want a remaster because the admire the old games, not in spite of that. Being an "OG Fan" doesn't make your opinion on the matter any more valid than a new fan - it's not 2010 so let's leave that kind of weird gamer elitism in the ground where it belongs.
Interesting stuff, I forget what I originally bought my 360 for but I definitely got the most play out of when I borrowed SR2 from a friend for a long weekend. I loved it so much they day I had to give it back I went straight to the mall to buy the SR1/2 double pack.
Granted I really liked GTA IV, especially how the cars handled. For the more "serious" GTA it felt right.
I think your point on SR3 is spot on. It just felt like a backstop from 1/2 in so many ways. Still definitely a fun game, I spent hours flying the Spectre in manual mod down the streets and the tanks were just plain fun. But these days I think I have a better chance of navigating GTA SA by memory SR3 Steelport. It was just such a bland and forgettable map.
4 was possibly the best recovery of 3 I could ever think of. You can feel the whole "DLC idea so fun that we made it a whole game" to it, so much so I like to consider SR just the first part of 4.
Then we have the reboot. I'm perfectly fine with it being with the times. It just feels like 3 all over again where in some cases it feels a step backwards. Some of my favorite things from 3/4 like the VTOLs and tanks just feel significantly worse in this version. Not to mention the story, I'm fine with it and I actually kind of like it, but the game is so short it all feels super rushed no matter what. I'm the type of player to do all of the side missions and activities I can before moving on with the story so I can't imagine how it must feel to someone doing them more quickly.
One thing the reboot didn't fail on like 3 was the map though. It's definitely a good one very recognizable. The city is. Abit small when you think about it. Without the lake it would be absolutely tiny, but that's fine since it gets the feeling across of a southwest city (at least to me a visitor to them).
I do feel like the desert isn't used nearly enough, like if you have that much open desert I feel like every crime you do should involve you going out there to either do something shady or lose the cops or something. I'm also not a fan of the island in the middle, I feel like it's wasted just to be used for the "not Professor Gehnki" activity, but even more wasted that it is only used once for that. Honestly should have ripped of SR2 here and made it a prison or like a high security power plant.
I also like how you brought up the NPC comments, something that has ruined other games for me. SR1/2 just felt so alive, like the little choices you made for your character had an effect. If you set your Booba slider to max then people on the street would comment on it, it was such a nice touch.
Meanwhile we have Cyberpunk over here with it's options for breast and dick size and no effect whatsoever. I'm not asking for it to change the whole game, I just think it would go along way if there were slight dialogue changes acknowledging what you went with. A sly comment about thinking you can shake your tits and get in or them getting in the way while shooting.
I just haven't had a game that made the world feel so alive like SR2 did, maybe GTA V/RDR2 came close but without being able to make your own character it's a bit of a different category. I still feel like the reboot has work to do, but I also feel like it has great potential. It's definitely not far off being extremely fun to play, but it definitely needs more content before that happens.
Nice essay and I agree.
Santo Ileso is a great map, and while people people like to pretend Nu-Saints Row is unsalvageable, if they hunker down and make a SR2 style sequel, where the map is 50% bigger and a lot of new content is added, I could see it being a great game.
As someone who put about 80 hours in the new SR, there’s a lot to like, it’s just packaged together really weirdly and needs some proper focus.
Nice post. I just love this franchise as much as you guys. Brought a Xbox series just for SR1 to know how it went down and I gladly enjoy it. I’m a SR3 fan, don’t get me wrong. 3, 4, GOOH, SR2, SR2022 and SR1 in order that I played. 4 is the one that I had most fun with cause of superpowers. If my uncle didn’t know about this game, I would’ve been bored outta my mind.
>And you're just damn lucky that I didn't win the lottery when it was nearly a billion dollars.
>Because I would have bought Volition and I'd be playing Agents of Mayhem 2 right now.
You wouldn't have gotten a billion if you won, taxes take out a huge amount. You would've gotten maybe a few 10-100 million, and that's a BIG maybe on the 100 mil
I just booted it back up after the latest patch and DLC. Already an improvement on a good game, and it definitely got some love, even though it still needs a bit more. Can't wait to beat it.
Good thoughts man & glad to hear you played the ogs too, but also strong disagree lol Sr2 had a great open world, especially for the time, & while Santo Ileso was def pretty it felt very dead to me, especially comparatively. Pretty much no buildings were enterable this time around, traffic of npcs was greatly reduced when compared to Stilwater as was the radio because I felt like I was always hearing the same songs compared to the pretty diverse soundtracks of prior entries, was also hoping the reboot would bring back the sr2 feature of buying apartments/customizing the styles in more expanded ways but no luck, clothing customization also felt reduced & led to some weird restrictions such as not being able to change colors, wear a chain with a jacket etc. I rlly gave it a go because I love the series, it just failed to immerse me And while I totally agree some of the old activities/dialogue hasn't aged well/should be left in past, I feel (like many) that the reboot's tonal shift was way too strong as it's still a game centered around gangs. Gangs are selfish by definition & the og main characters were not good people, they were murderers drug dealers pimps & cop killers, meanwhile the reboot used every opportunity to make its main characters into less edgy more redeemable/charitable heroes when no one asked them to I respect trying something new & some fresh air was needed, it was just also unf a huge missed opportunity given that we're in somewhat of a golden age of gang tv. Snowfall, Power & all its spinoffs, BMF, Gomorrah, Top Boy, etc none of them about good people but people evidently love it. And SR had the p e r f e c t window given GTA6's delay & Mafia 3's disappointment to release an open world crime game during this gang renaissance, but instead they decided to make the least gang-like gang I've ever seen for reasons unknown
ok
It's weird to me how many people seem to complain about the gangster aspects of the gangster simulator... Nostalgia shouldn't have to make up for "cringe wannabe gangster dialogue" in a game about a guy who wants to be the biggest gangster in the city/world/galaxy... If anything it's the painful attempt to completely avoid that kind of dialogue (outside of mocking it) that puts me off the new game. I don't want Whedon-esque dialogue in my gangsters simulator. I don't need a game to pretend like it's too cool and aloof to be what it is. You want to make a game about a bunch of snarky zillenials quipping their way through an impossibly violent environment and push the meta/irony angle, then that's fine. But you don't get to pretend that it's an improvement to unnamed-protagonist over-the-top gangster simulator it's being meta about. Also it's downright fuckin' hilarious to me how many people choose some random issue in the games to have a moral quandary. "Look, I can play a character who steals cars more often than he changes shirts, mows down pedestrians to save a few seconds of driving, kills rivals/cops in numbers high enough to warrant a UN intervention, and wreaks explosive mayhem for a bit of street cred... But driving prostitutes from one pimp to another? That's really outdated and offensive, human trafficking is serious stuff, guys..." >So, to those people that haven't played the reboot and just keep asking for a remaster of SR2.... just get an XBox and download the original games when they go on sale. What does wanting a remaster of 2 have to do with not caring for 2022? And what kind of weird fan do you think is sitting there saying "this game is so fantastic I wish they'd remaster it... But screw that game I'm not downloading it"? >If you didn't have an Xbox 360, you're not an OG fan. As an "OG fan" as well: if I met someone who only played Saints Row and Saints Row 2 as backwards compatible games on the Xbox1, and still liked them better than 2022, I'd take that as a clear indicator that 2022 clearly got something wrong. This person doesn't have nostalgia for you to blame for them liking the older games: they played a game with zero emotional investment, and found one to better than the other. If this kind of person actually exists, I'd say he's a good reason to look into how much 2022 is being floated by nostalgia for a series it barely resembles. So maybe we should take their input a bit more seriously even if they aren't an "OG fan". tldr: people thinking the old games were trying too hard are exactly why the new game tries sooo much harder than the old games ever did. Being ironic doesn't make it better, it makes it the Scary Movie of the genre. "I can excuse murder and wanton violence, but moving prostitutes 3 blocks away is where I draw the line". People want a remaster because the admire the old games, not in spite of that. Being an "OG Fan" doesn't make your opinion on the matter any more valid than a new fan - it's not 2010 so let's leave that kind of weird gamer elitism in the ground where it belongs.
Thank you - we love it when people notice the little details we put into each game.
Interesting stuff, I forget what I originally bought my 360 for but I definitely got the most play out of when I borrowed SR2 from a friend for a long weekend. I loved it so much they day I had to give it back I went straight to the mall to buy the SR1/2 double pack. Granted I really liked GTA IV, especially how the cars handled. For the more "serious" GTA it felt right. I think your point on SR3 is spot on. It just felt like a backstop from 1/2 in so many ways. Still definitely a fun game, I spent hours flying the Spectre in manual mod down the streets and the tanks were just plain fun. But these days I think I have a better chance of navigating GTA SA by memory SR3 Steelport. It was just such a bland and forgettable map. 4 was possibly the best recovery of 3 I could ever think of. You can feel the whole "DLC idea so fun that we made it a whole game" to it, so much so I like to consider SR just the first part of 4. Then we have the reboot. I'm perfectly fine with it being with the times. It just feels like 3 all over again where in some cases it feels a step backwards. Some of my favorite things from 3/4 like the VTOLs and tanks just feel significantly worse in this version. Not to mention the story, I'm fine with it and I actually kind of like it, but the game is so short it all feels super rushed no matter what. I'm the type of player to do all of the side missions and activities I can before moving on with the story so I can't imagine how it must feel to someone doing them more quickly. One thing the reboot didn't fail on like 3 was the map though. It's definitely a good one very recognizable. The city is. Abit small when you think about it. Without the lake it would be absolutely tiny, but that's fine since it gets the feeling across of a southwest city (at least to me a visitor to them). I do feel like the desert isn't used nearly enough, like if you have that much open desert I feel like every crime you do should involve you going out there to either do something shady or lose the cops or something. I'm also not a fan of the island in the middle, I feel like it's wasted just to be used for the "not Professor Gehnki" activity, but even more wasted that it is only used once for that. Honestly should have ripped of SR2 here and made it a prison or like a high security power plant. I also like how you brought up the NPC comments, something that has ruined other games for me. SR1/2 just felt so alive, like the little choices you made for your character had an effect. If you set your Booba slider to max then people on the street would comment on it, it was such a nice touch. Meanwhile we have Cyberpunk over here with it's options for breast and dick size and no effect whatsoever. I'm not asking for it to change the whole game, I just think it would go along way if there were slight dialogue changes acknowledging what you went with. A sly comment about thinking you can shake your tits and get in or them getting in the way while shooting. I just haven't had a game that made the world feel so alive like SR2 did, maybe GTA V/RDR2 came close but without being able to make your own character it's a bit of a different category. I still feel like the reboot has work to do, but I also feel like it has great potential. It's definitely not far off being extremely fun to play, but it definitely needs more content before that happens.
I’m not going to listen to somebody that doesn’t like dead rising
I own all of the Dead Rising games. I just wasn't blown away on first play like I was with Saints Row.
[Me,](https://youtu.be/5hfYJsQAhl0) after reading the first three paragraphs and skipping to the end
Nice essay and I agree. Santo Ileso is a great map, and while people people like to pretend Nu-Saints Row is unsalvageable, if they hunker down and make a SR2 style sequel, where the map is 50% bigger and a lot of new content is added, I could see it being a great game. As someone who put about 80 hours in the new SR, there’s a lot to like, it’s just packaged together really weirdly and needs some proper focus.
Nice post. I just love this franchise as much as you guys. Brought a Xbox series just for SR1 to know how it went down and I gladly enjoy it. I’m a SR3 fan, don’t get me wrong. 3, 4, GOOH, SR2, SR2022 and SR1 in order that I played. 4 is the one that I had most fun with cause of superpowers. If my uncle didn’t know about this game, I would’ve been bored outta my mind.
Great post!
100 agree I especially loved crackdown 1
>And you're just damn lucky that I didn't win the lottery when it was nearly a billion dollars. >Because I would have bought Volition and I'd be playing Agents of Mayhem 2 right now. You wouldn't have gotten a billion if you won, taxes take out a huge amount. You would've gotten maybe a few 10-100 million, and that's a BIG maybe on the 100 mil
Powerball got up to $1.6b, with the lump sum being $782m. After federal and state taxes that would have been about $400m.
I just booted it back up after the latest patch and DLC. Already an improvement on a good game, and it definitely got some love, even though it still needs a bit more. Can't wait to beat it.