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new arc has had a new VA. its pretty noticeable. They do okay, but its one of the rare time's the english VA is better. I'd recommend watching his bankai episode in the dub.
Watch it all in dub if you’re English, I don’t understand people who listen to sub when they don’t understand the language, sure the VA might be a little bit better but dub is still good in lots of good anime.
That's like arguing that you should watch certain movies in English dub rather than its original material.
I'm not saying you shouldn't watch in English dub if that's what you prefer, but your argument doesn't make sense.
> I don’t understand people who listen to sub when they don’t understand the language
Because it sounds better? I know how to read, subs aren't a big deal.
> Sure but dub doesn’t sound bad
NA voice work is full of nepotism that causes the quality to lag behind JPN, people who sound way out of the age range of the people they're voicing and cringe deliveries. Very few dubs are listenable, let alone good.
Most dubs for good anime I’ve heard are perfectly fine and some quite good. HxH is a great example, the dub is good and matches the characters perfectly. Bleach itself has good dub actors (sure not all are but some are talented). Lots of popular anime have a good dub like JJK, Demon Slayer, AOT, OPM, FMA, MHA, Assassination Classroom, HxH and more.
What about the non-popular ones? Again, nepotism lands the big boy roles to all the same people so growth in the scene is difficult when people can't get their name out there. It causes the pool of VAs to choose from to get diluted and the non-DBZ, Bleach, Naruto type of shows to all suffer. Add on underpaid, not an attractive job type and difficult work = recipe for poorer quality.
Japan suffers from the overwork and underpay too but the VA and anime culture is wildly different. You can become a genuine star over there if you "make it" as well as different cultural and societal views on overworking. Dubs are just, as a whole, worse quality than subs and that will not change until western anime and VA culture radically shift.
The original voice acting is better 9 times out of 10, so I stick to sub. And while you can say it's somewhat up to preference, there is a real amount of objectivity in saying that sub is better (in most cases). One of the reasons is how everything happens in the same studio, so there is less of a disconnect.
Also for argument's sake, we're only talking about English dub, because there wouldn't even be an argument if we considered dubs in other languages, like French. The French dub for Bleach is pretty bad.
The Japanese VA Shōzō Iizuka he was almost 90 years old(1933-2023) and he was active from 1950-2023 for his career. He was even in Astro Boy one of the first anime.
Wait what he was working this year too, right before passing? That's insane, he must have had a fulfilling life.
Get it? Fulfilling and him being king of hollows...but rest in peace to a 🐐
The main issue with Yammy is his lack of intelligence. He also wasn’t even the original Cero Espada as that designation belonged to Szael back when he was fused his brother.
Yammy merely has a higher amount of reiatsu, but that doesn’t count for much if he can’t use it effectively considering how he fails at basic Arrancar abilities like Pesquisa.
And even still, powerful characters can still take damage and can even be killed by much weaker characters if they’re outmaneuvered. Barragan for example should have won against Soi Fon and Hachi easily, but the reason he lost was because of his pride and arrogance. This allowed his foes to turn his power against him.
We see this with Yamamoto who got scarred by Chojiro when he used his Bankai. Had Yamamoto been actually using his power, he would have brushed off Chojiro’s attack.
This is also a similar thing with Kenpachi who has stronger levels of reiatsu than SS Ichigo. He however placed shackles on himself which weakened him and restricted him from using his full power.
Yammy has a high amount of reiatsu but it isn’t dense at all. He’s basically just a big blob of power and in bleach the density of reiatsu is usually more important than the amount
Not sure if you’re joking or not, but if you’re not, yes. After 10 years of the TYBW manga arc never being animated, we finally got it animated, with the best animation the series has had so far.
It’s being released in bits and pieces so that Kubo can help write and draw it to include story elements he left out of the manga and to correct some plot points. The first cour ran for several weeks starting in October 2022 and the next cour is set to start July of this year.
It’s the biggest thing to happen to Bleach since, well, since they stopped animating it a decade ago. Combined with the release of a one-shot manga that looks like it’s the beginning of a new manga arc, and yeah, the entire fan base has been re-ignited for the first time in a *long* time.
For sure! I’m bad at detecting sarcasm and I didn’t want to be an asshole. If you haven’t read TYBW, I would maybe even wait until after the anime is out. Kubo kinda rushed through the manga arc because he had some mental and physical health issues going on, so the anime with him in the writing room is shaping up to be a better version of the story, IMO. I hope it keeps going that way.
All good! It would t have been a good joke anyways lol.
I dont read mangas. I like to watch Anime’s to fully experience the crazy anime moments and the ups and downs in its full animated glory.
I don't even know why it's a debate
Senescensia and respira clap Yammy's ass
Only number rank fans make excuses for why Yammy would win. The most ridiculous argument is that yammy could reiatsu neg Barragan's abilities. When I asked for proof that the reiatsu difference is high enough, he said "the numbers are proof"
What I don't understand is, is why you try to change the ranking to begin with? Kubo wrote the damn thing. If he says Yammy is the strongest, then he is the fucking strongest.
Besides, respira takes time to affect someone. Soi fon had enough time to argue with her luitenant about cutting off her arm, and she still ended up surviving. Yammy can grow to a 1000x her size, maybe even larger. For all we know it'd take hours for his respira to gnaw through all that muscle, and we haven't even touched the fact that hierro could slow it down, and Yammy could technically even regenerate if he can continue to grow and evolve.
All this time he just needs one or two solid hits on Barragan, and he's a dead man.
>What I don't understand is, is why you try to change the ranking to begin with?
I'm not. Read the title
>Kubo wrote the damn thing. If he says Yammy is the strongest, then he is the fucking strongest.
Strongest doesnt mean "would win in a fight"
I agree yammy is stronger than Baraggan. But my point is Baraggan would beat yammy in a fight
Yammy has 2 spots over Barragan, and the difference within the top 3, between Stark and Harribel for example, is absolutely massive.
Yammy doesn't just have punching strength, you know. He has cero's and it's variants of them, which would definitely be too much for anyone to handle point blank. Yammy isn't flashy or full of hax, but if Soi Fon's bankai can damage Barragan, Yammy can demolish him for sure
>if Soi Fon's bankai can damage Barragan, Yammy can demolish him for sure
Yammy's way too slow. Baraggan massively outspeeds him. Yammy will never hit him
Conversely, Baraggan can easily tag him. When he does, it's all over, due to senescensia/respira
That'a just headcannon considering he did do quite a lot of damage to both Kenpachi and Byakuya, and they're by no means slow.
So even if he couldn't touch them all the time, at the very least he can get a few hits in, not to mention high power bala's and cero's.
And I thought we just discussed that respira doesn't mean instant death? So no, Baragan touching him doesn't mean it's all over, it just means there's probably a time limit on how long the fight can be drawn out.
>they're by no means slow
They're not slow, but soi fon is still faster. And Baraggan casually blitzed her. While in *base*
And this isn't even including his time dilation field
>Baragan touching him doesn't mean it's all over, it just means there's probably a time limit on how long the fight can be drawn out
But that time limit is for Yammy. Baraggan will never get hit
It was pretty clear that Soi Fon was faster, and his time dialation field was the only thing keeping him from getting out-speed up close. Never have I heard anyone say Barragan is faster, just because of one nitpicky moment meant for dramatic effect. It's just Kubo's thing to do it with cool characters.
But sure, Baraggan is a speed demon, he can kill anyone he pleases with just one touch, not even the Soul King can beat this man, you're absolutely right
>It was pretty clear that Soi Fon was faster, and his time dialation field was the only thing keeping him from getting out-speed up close
Not talking about the time dilation scene
He literally perception blitzed her. Two different feats
> Yammy has 2 spots over Barragan, and the difference within the top 3, between Stark and Harribel for example, is absolutely massive.
That's because Harribel shouldn't have been 3 to begin with.
> He has cero's and it's variants of them, which would definitely be too much for anyone to handle point blank. Yammy isn't flashy or full of hax, but if Soi Fon's bankai can damage Barragan, Yammy can demolish him for sure
How did you even scale Yammy's cero above JR? [A simple Getsuga appears to deal with his Cero no problem](https://i.imgur.com/cNS30l0.png). You can also argue it was Cero Oscuras, which makes this even worse.
Even if you manage to disprove this, Starrk's Ceros were bad and definitely not comparable to JR. Why would Yammy's Cero be this much stronger?
> What I don't understand is, is why you try to change the ranking to begin with? Kubo wrote the damn thing. If he says Yammy is the strongest, then he is the fucking strongest.
Kubo also drew the manga and performance of Espada which you now entirely discard.
> Besides, respira takes time to affect someone.
It doesn't take time to affect someone, it slowly spreads to entire body. Which is irrelevant, because Yammy isn't going to do anything anyway during this time.
> Yammy can grow to a 1000x her size, maybe even larger.
Yammy said that he never got his big and his size wasn't even 500x of his base. Unless you think his height was like few kilometers. He also needs to get really angry.
> For all we know it'd take hours for his respira to gnaw through all that muscle, and we haven't even touched the fact that hierro could slow it down, and Yammy could technically even regenerate if he can continue to grow and evolve.
Even if it's true (it's baseless assumption, Yammy grows in size the angrier he is and against Zaraki and Byakuya he admitted he never got this big), it doesn't matter. All Barragan has to do is wait...
... or used Respira over and over and over again until it covers most, if not entire body.
> All this time he just needs one or two solid hits on Barragan, and he's a dead man.
Buddy, Ichigo blocked Yammy's attack without a problem and Zaraki was hit by an off guard punch and crashed into building - he came out just fine. He is also insanely slow, [he couldn't tag a fucking Rukia of all people](https://i.imgur.com/DJZH18r.png).
Barragan tanked a fucking Jakohou Raikoben from point blank range in an enclosed space. Yammy has absolutely nothing on Barragan.
I swear, Yammy wank is getting out of hand on this sub.
You do know that it was stated in the fucking databooks that his Reiatsu was more than 2x of the other Espadas in his Ape form right? This is the same Yammy that pushed Zaraki to be stronger than 50% VL Ichigo and equal or greater than VL while suppressed
No, it says his reiatsu is 2x compared to his base.
Which is massive, but it doesn't mean he has 2x the reiatsu of like, Starrk, who was a walking extinction, and Barragan, who ruled Hueco Mundo.
Most supplementary material puts him as above, but still comparable to Starrk and Barragan.
>You do know that it was stated in the fucking databooks that his Reiatsu was more than 2x of the other Espadas in his Ape form right?
My question remains the same
What proof is there that a 2x difference is enough for reiatsu negation?
>What proof is there that a 2x difference is enough for reiatsu negation?
I'm curious compañero
If 100 is an average captain level Reiastu, where would you value:
* R2 Ulquiorra
* Released Barragan
* R1 Yammy
* Ape Yammy
* Released Starrk
* FH Ichigo
Who is an average Captain? Kubo is pretty particular about never really giving clear distinctions between characters on power level.
The only character easily placeable would be Aizen, at around 200.
It was literally shown in the show that with strong enough attacks (meaning high enough reiatsu) his respira can be negated, there is a reason someone like Starkk with overwhelming reiatsu and infinite firepower ranks above Barragan even tho he was the King of Hueco Mundo
>It was literally shown in the show that with strong enough attacks (meaning high enough reiatsu) his respira can be negated
Cite the scene that demonstrates this
>there is a reason someone like Starkk with overwhelming reiatsu and infinite firepower ranks above Barragan
Yes, and that reason is reiryoku
Cite the proof that Yammy will lose then. If you want your proof so badly that proves you're right. Tell me in full, with links to the pages from bleach manga that PROVE without a doubt you're right and Barragan would win against Yammy. You find me actual proof and I'll believe you over everyone else downvoting you. Oh wait you can't. Because it's been debated for 15 years now and you aren't special. The proof we need isn't just going to be overlooked all this time by everyone excluding you. We've tried and it's inconclusive bar opinion and person head canon.
Even the defeat of Yammy was cut so we know next to nothing about his zero ape mode. I know nothing about it, and so do you. We don't even see the battle between him Byakuya and Kenny. But I think it's rather telling Kubo wrote it in that it was those two that defeated him. You know his two strongest poster boys. Says a lot, it's not like he sent a couple lieutenants after Yammy did he?
So come on, where's the proof to your argument that no one has spotted or seen all this time?
>Cite the proof that Yammy will lose
1)Speed difference
He casually blitzed the [fastest](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRbfrXqI0if60v-x7q6kWl8OkRO58h1CDbiMg&usqp=CAU) captain. Senescensia time dilation field adds yet [another](http://pa1.narvii.com/5728/50343144bfe1a73fc0dff2900d88e053fe427611_00.gif) layer to his speed. And this is all in his *base* form
Meanwhile released Yammy was tagged by Byakuya and Kenpachi, and Soi Fon is faster than both of them
2) Respira is a [one-shot ](https://i.makeagif.com/media/2-25-2016/IMP5YH.gif)
, because yammy doesn't have regeneration.
Senescensia is a [one-tap](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRbfrXqI0if60v-x7q6kWl8OkRO58h1CDbiMg&usqp=CAU) fatal strike
Massive speed difference + superior hax gives Baraggan the win
>Even the defeat of Yammy was cut so we know next to nothing about his zero ape mode. I know nothing about it, and so do you
We know that he was tagged by Kenpachi and Byakuya. Which proves my speed point
>So come on, where's the proof to your argument that no one has spotted or seen all this time?
Lmao
"What proof is there that a 2x difference is enough for Reiatsu negation?"
Where's yours that it isn't enough?
Neither of us have proof either way, which is why the debate is still on going.
Barragan sonidos to Yammys head and releases respira - wins. Yammy tries to bala him and punches himself in the face. Yammy is the TFS Krillen of bleach.
As others have said, multiple sources put yammy as being deserving of his rank, though it also doesn’t necessarily denote who would win in a fight since hax and a good matchup can overcome a difference in general performance.
That said, people sell yammy way too short just because we didn’t get to view his fight/ because byakuya and kenpachi seemed to view him as a nuisance, but we didn’t get to see how hard it went down once the real fight began and the fact that the two captains returned together implies that they ended up having to take it seriously and work together.
Novels confirm that baraggan’s respira can be blown away with enough force, and with that in mind I could certainly see a full force cero from yammy overwhelming respira. We’ve seen how relatively slowly it takes effect, I can’t see it ageing a gigantic fast moving cero before it hits its target.
That said, that’s the only scenario I can see yammy winning in and it would involve baraggan sitting there and letting respira do all the work, in reality baraggan surely speedblitzes in close and tags yammy with respira, yammy doesn’t really have an answer to it other than ripping off an affected limb if he’s fast (and getting tagged multiple times over by respira again while he does so).
Tldr; baraggan takes this pretty handily, but yammy deserves his higher rank canonically by more than just reiryoku. Since there’s no metric for how close they are, my headcanon is that the top three are basically in the same ballpark
We see a partially healed Kenpachi pretty easily handling and carving up R1 Yammy, while swinging 1-handed and wearing his eye patch. Fully healthy, in the same situation he could barely even scratch a fully sealed Nnoitra.
Yammy’s fights are all heavily reminiscent of Ichigo’s substitute Zanpakuto and Grand Fisher’s Ressurreccion. He’s a great big, squidgy ball of poorly controlled power.
A mid-breakdown Ichigo snipped his arm off like it was made of tissue paper; Grimmjow caught multiple similar swings barehanded and wasn’t even scratched.
His direct output is massive (that cero for instance) but he’s slow, soft and uncoordinated.
I’m definitely in the camp of, his reserves are the largest, but his combat prowess is sorely lacking.
Regarding nicking him like he’s made of tissue paper, the fact that that’s all it did was something of a feat (at least, ichigo was shocked to see that his most powerful attack was little more than an annoying paper cut)
It’s also worth noting that kenpachi gets notably stronger from unlocking his self imposed limits every time he’s pushed to the brink, so he’s probably actually even stronger than when he fought nnoitra when he attacks (though it’s impossible to say since he also wasn’t fully healed)
But overall yeah, I think he’s ‘technically’ the strongest in more than just reiryoku, but when it comes to actual combat prowess his size just ruins any chance he has against other opponents in his tier. In particular, he was up against kenpachi who’s specialty is gigantic powerhouses and byakuya whose tiny blades could go right up his nose, in his eyes etc.
I think of it like a human vs a hornet that can shoot it’s stingers; the hornet is far squishier and weaker in every way, but it doesn’t mean anything if it can’t be hit, the fight would just end with the human riddled with stingers
I meant in Karakura. Ichigo took his entire arm clean off, single swing, no Getsuga, no amped Reiatsu. He’s the only Espada that Ichigo ever managed anything like that with. The rest could all catch his Bankai barehanded. And yet Yammy is meant to have the second hardest Hierro.
And Yammy nailed Kenpachi at least once during their fight… kicked him through a building if I recall correctly. And barely even scuffed him, while Noitra rather casually shoved his hand straight through Kenpachi.
The issue with Yammy really is that he’s made out to be a big deal… but every actual fight that he has is a one-sided embarrassment where his opponents toy with him. Ichigo crippled him, then Yoruichi absolutely sand-bagged him. Urahara treated their fight with total contempt. He managed to actually grab hold of Ichigo, but couldn’t even do any lasting damage from that position of power. And then Kenpachi and Byakuya treated him like an irritation preventing them from focusing on fighting each other.
Kubo constantly builds him up off panel. And then every on-panel fight for him is a complete embarrassment.
In fairness, yammy is noted to be the only member who changes number in resurrection because his base form is comparatively disappointing; Ichigo took his arm off while he was in base and ranked lower than aaeroniero, and coupled with the fact that Ichigo is an awful metric for powerscaling in that in that very encounter ulquiorra notes that ichigos power is constantly fluctuating from too small to detect to being even greater than his own, perhaps the most notable example being when he went from struggling against grimmjow to one shotting him because he got serious
And again, kenpachi vs nnoitra feats aren’t really relevant since we can’t gauge his strength; fully healed kenpachi after the nnoitra fight is far stronger than before it, but given that he’s taken damage that would of course weaken him, though in my personal opinion I’m sure he’d be stronger given how much he shrugs off damage and doesn’t really let it weaken him unless he’s unable to move. I’d be inclined to think yammy stomps pre nnoitra fight kenpachi, at least until kenpachi unlocks even more power during the fight and wins round 2
Ultimately, the only feats that really matter for yammy in this case are his feats as the 0 espada, and those feats are having treated ichigos attack of unknown strength as a papercut and having landed a hit on Kenpachi who’s strength also can’t really be gauged, and the rest happens off screen. It’s a hugely disappointing send off after the hype, but there’s nothing that actually indicates that yammy was weak (beyond having glaring weaknesses in his size, but that’s combat practicality rather than any sort of strength metrics the espada would be ranked by)
>We see a partially healed Kenpachi pretty easily handling and carving up R1 Yammy, while swinging 1-handed and wearing his eye patch. Fully healthy, in the same situation he could barely even scratch a fully sealed Nnoitra.
Kenpachi explicitly got stronger following his fight with Nnoitora, that's a bad example.
Kenpachi’s whole gig is that he self-limits to however strong he needs to be to enjoy a fight. Hence why he can lose to Ichigo and then immediately clap Tosen. Before losing to Ichigo he was already able to 1-tap a Captain and impress Yamamoto enough to abandon training him after 1 day; but he could still lose to a half-healed Ichigo, who’d just nearly lost to Renji.
His whole issue is that his strength varies constantly with his opponents. Its not a Zenkai, its a self-imposed limiter.
> That said, people sell yammy way too short
No they don't. They sell him at exactly where he was demonstrated to be. Byakuya and Kenpachi swatted him away like a fly.
You can make up anything happening off screen.
For instance, my head canon is that Dondachaka showed up, hit Yammy with the Rock Bottom and then asked Byakuya if he could smell what The Chaka was cooking. Just as much evidence for that happening.
I always thought the espada got their ranks based on how well they killed stuff not on just how strong they are.Was this a mistranslation or am I sippin that Quincy lean❓
*This sub is approaching YouTube short level of head-canon. It's quite concerning tbh, when fans outright think they know more than Kubo.*
[*https://www.reddit.com/r/bleach/comments/u0elpv/i\_am\_so\_sick\_and\_tired\_of\_hearing\_espada\_ranked/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3*](https://www.reddit.com/r/bleach/comments/u0elpv/i_am_so_sick_and_tired_of_hearing_espada_ranked/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
If you want to disagree with Kubo when he says they're ranked in overall power (databook 2, 3, and manga) then do so :)
For real, it's one thing to think that Yammy was offscreened and that showing wise he didn't live up like the rest of the Espadas (which is true) but that's another thing to try so hard to discredit what is officially stated and to chalk it up to a new meaning
>https://www.reddit.com/r/bleach/comments/u0elpv/i_am_so_sick_and_tired_of_hearing_espada_ranked/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
"Merit, efficiency, competency, faculty"
You're really trynna argue that Yammy is the best by these metrics?
Even canonically it doesn't make sense, because the only thing that changes in his transformation is his power
And you seem to be conflating "power" with "who'd win in a fight"
Yammy has no actual way of winning when he's up against senescensia and respira
Espada ranking is based on power/strength. The strongest fighter is the lowest Espada (lower the rank, the stronger they are). The ranking also has criteria in which the fighter will be evaluated:
* Killing Ability
* Lethality
* Spiritual Power
>"Merit, efficiency, competency, faculty", You're really trynna argue that Yammy is the best by these metrics?
Merit? Yes. Not only did Kubo say he deserved the ranking, as I provided scans of this in at least 3 of my posts/collages, but it took two notable captains to take him down in 1v1.
Efficiency/competency? He's not skilled in pesquisa, however his lack of "competency" allows him to grow angrier, which actually fuels his power. The angrier he gets, the stronger he gets. In that way, he definitely is ranked accurate on "faculty".
>Even canonically it doesn't make sense, because the only thing that changes in his transformation is his power
Reiatsu, physical strength, size all increase. All notable changes for someone who already had a lot of physical strength.
>Yammy has no actual way of winning when he's up against senescensia and respira
Given that Soi Fon's Bankai was almost able to one-shot Barrgan, despite him having both Respira and Senescencia, and both of Yammy's released forms outclass her in Reiatsu, I don't think Kubo was wrong in his rankings.
But again, his rankings. Not yours or mine or a random amigo.
I feel like a lot of people get hung up on “Kubo said it, so that’s it—the end.” We don’t let authors in written media get away with that. The author has a duty to the audience to make sense out of something that doesn’t make sense. If George RR Martin writes an inconsistency, there’s always a huge recognition of it from the fans, and he usually ends up retconning it.
I’ve read what Kubo has to say about the rankings, and there’s a couple of things that just don’t make sense to me about the rankings being absolute and administered by the Hand of God:
Sosuke Aizen created the Espada system, regardless of who was and wasn’t already an Arrancar. He hid the true Cero, he “hid” Ulquiorra’s Segunda Etapa, he hid Wonderweiss, and he hid Tosen’s Resureccion. That already shows that he ranked some of them more strategically than “biggest boom gets smallest number.”
Now, this argument is weakest against Yammy, Ulquiorra, Wonderweiss, and Tosen, but I still think there’s more that the reader brings to the table in this relationship than “Kubo said it one time.”
Yammy's gran rey or CO would be terrifyingly powerful lol. think if Mayuri successfully got his corpse like he did the Privarones for the TYBW. since he amped them, he amps Yammy too?
> The ranking also has criteria in which the fighter will be evaluated:
> Killing Ability
> Lethality
> Spiritual Power
So Yammy at the very absolute best only fulfills spiritual power metric then?
> Merit? Yes. Not only did Kubo say he deserved the ranking, as I provided scans of this in at least 3 of my posts/collages,
Why are you going with meta argument when it's clearly about in-universe argument? The merit refers to Yammy deserving the 0 spot. What did he do exactly to deserve 0 spot?
> Efficiency/competency? He's not skilled in pesquisa, however his lack of "competency" allows him to grow angrier, which actually fuels his power. The angrier he gets, the stronger he gets. In that way, he definitely is ranked accurate on "faculty".
So no competency then. And therefore no efficiency.
> but it took two notable captains to take him down in 1v1.
In ape form. Scans are clearly talking about released form. Which Zaraki and Byakuya absolutely toyed with. He wasn't even considered a threat to them.
And even then, he was Espada 0. Starrk handled Love and Rose. It's embarrassing for Yammy to not handle Zaraki and Byakuya even after he powered up after his released form which was supposed to be already the strongest among Espadas. He doesn't live up to his supposed power.
> Reiatsu, physical strength, size all increase. All notable changes for someone who already had a lot of physical strength.
So basically, his power. Not notable enough anyway, he wasn't doing jack shit to weakened Ichigo or Zaraki.
> Given that Soi Fon's Bankai was almost able to one-shot Barrgan,
Given by who? There is no evidence for this. While we are at it, how is it relevant if Yammy didn't show destructive feats on par with JR?
> despite him having both Respira and Senescencia,
It was a point blank attack, both Respira and Senescencia did not matter.
> and both of Yammy's released forms outclass her in Reiatsu,
So did Barragan to Soifon and what? Dangai Ichigo outclassed Monster Aizen in reiatsu by even greater metric, still got hurt by Fragor.
> But again, his rankings. Not yours or mine or a random amigo.
His manga, his feats, his presentation of his own characters. Not yours.
>however his lack of "competency" allows him to grow angrier, which actually fuels his power
So competency is already one thats directly contradicted
So is efficiency
>Reiatsu, physical strength, size all increase
But none of those affect him mentally. So those metrics still get contradicted
>Given that Soi Fon's Bankai was almost able to one-shot Barrgan
he let her hit him
Even base Baraggan massively outspeeds R1 yammy, so he doesn't have a chance of hitting him
>despite him having both Respira and Senescencia
He didn't use senescensia, he only used respira
>I don't think Kubo was wrong in his rankings.
I don't think he was either. I'm just saying the rankings don't measure who would win in a fight, they just measure power
Looks like you didn't read the post
>>"Merit, efficiency, competency, faculty"You're really trynna argue that Yammy is the best by these metrics?
Yes , because those things is what Japanese people use to describe people who good at their jobs.Espada’s job is being strong in a fight, it’s the whole point.If Yammy is stronger than others therefore he is more efficient and competent as an Espada than others.
Alright, but that still brings me back to my original point that power isn't the same as "would win in a fight"
I'm not denying that yammy has more power. I'm just saying he'd lose to Baraggan in a fight
>>Alright, but that still brings me back to my original point that power isn't the same as "would win in a fight"
I agree with you in theory.Weaker characters could win a fight , but Manga/Databooks/Novels all treated Espada ranking with “lower number would win” , so I personally see it as Author’s intent even if logically it’s not that consistent.
In Yammy’s case, I always thought that, he could be pretty easily killed, by weaker characters if his Eyes were attacked.But sometimes we should use “anime logic”.
P.s Barragan and Yammy in my opinion shared 1 trait , they both awful fighters.
>P.s Barragan and Yammy in my opinion shared 1 trait
I think Baraggan suffered from plot
In base form, he blitzed the fastest captain, and demonstrated the most underrated ability ever (senescensia).
Then in resureccion he just stopped using them. Hell, he literally stopped moving, he just stayed still and let attacks hit him
Kubo realised his abilities were too OP and tried to fix it by making him lazy/laidback
>>I think Baraggan suffered from plot
Espada definitely should kill more characters
>>Kubo realised his abilities were too OP and tried to fix it by making him lazy/laidback
He just made him toooooo arrogant
None of them are for speed
He's still slow as fuck. None of his attacks would touch Baraggan, who *in base* was able to blitz the fastest captain. And also has a time dilation field that slows down anything that gets close to him
Meanwhile senescensia or respira is essentially a one-shot defeat against yammy
There is no point in arguing anymore, it's gonna be the same shit over and over. Yammy is stronger in every aspect but Barragan has his Respira which u think Yammy can't negate
>Yammy is stronger in every aspect
Every aspect? You're just ignoring speed 💀
>Barragan has his Respira which u think Yammy can't negate
You still haven't proved why he *can* negate it
I've asked for proof since the beginning of this conversation and you haven't provided it
Ok mb, he gets speed aswell. I have? U just don't want to accept it. Aizen literally negated an insta kill hax and that proves Reiatsu>Hax in most cases, Yammy obviously has more Reiatsu than Barragan as per Databook statements and comparing him with Zaraki. By ur logic Soi fon's broken ass shikai can One shot Aizen if she actually lands it, she can literally one shot (technically not one shot but..) anyone in the series regardless of how powerful they are. Imagine soi fon one shoting Yhwach lmfao, yes Yhwach can be rewrite the future but still, her shikai working on someone like him?
>Ok mb, he gets speed aswell
Lmao how
Baraggan blitzed Soi Fon while in *base*
Meanwhile released yammy was no-diffed by Kenpachi and Byakuya
>Aizen literally negated an insta kill hax and that proves Reiatsu>Hax
Kyoka Suigetsu
I said my bad he (Barragan) gets speed aswell not Yammy. No diffed? Have u been reading anything i said? The fight was offscreen so u don't know if he got no diffed. In fact it's impossible since Zaraki appeared alot stronger in SAFWY which means Yammy was responsible for it, Zaraki ain't getting stronger if he is no diffing someone
>The fight was offscreen
The R1 fight was onscreen
>In fact it's impossible since Zaraki appeared alot stronger in SAFWY which means Yammy was responsible for it, Zaraki ain't getting stronger if he is no diffing someone
It's very possible. Zaraki no-diffed nnoitra once he used kendo. Yet his boost after the nnoitra fight was insane
Besides he could've fought more opponents after yammy
My point still stands. Stronger isnt the same as "would win in a fight"
I'm not denying that yammy has more strength. I'm just saying he'd lose to Baraggan in a fight
He says, arguing furiously in the comments with anyone that dares to disagree
‘Something something you’re just dumb something something show me all your evidence along with a peer reviewed thesis something something did you even *read* the manga’
It’s just cartoon ghosts dude, chill
>He says, arguing furiously in the comments with anyone that dares to disagree
I have no problem if they disagree. I'm just gonna need canon backing, not headcanon lol
>It’s just cartoon ghosts dude, chill
You must be new to this sub
Not new, rather I’ve made the same mistake myself of being that guy and learned that it’s really not worth getting a bee in my bonnet about getting everyone to agree with how a matchup goes down
It’s pretty obvious that you’re right that yammy simply doesn’t have an answer to baraggan speedblitzing with his one hit KO move (which works on hax with an ageing effect rather than relying on power like ichigo would) and going by what wounded/ killed yammy the idea that yammy reiatsu negs is laughable, but people on Reddit are gonna have dumb alternate takes that they’ll die on their hill to defend and there’s no point getting worked up/ seeking an argument with them, nor is it worth stooping to their level to be slinging condescension at each other.
These aren’t even the worst takes I’ve seen, I’ve seen more than one person swear down that Itachi could low diff beerus because ‘zetsu says the yata mirror and totsuka blade combo makes him invincible so he survives Earths destruction, but beerus wouldn’t even get the chance to attack because Itachi has FTL feats and can just seal him with the totsuka blade’, there’s no point getting upset while trying to convince redditors of anything once they’ve made their mind up on a vs thread
You are literally the only here wanting to argue. Everyone else is providing you sources to how you are wrong and you're so far up your own ass you can't accept that you're just wrong.
>Everyone else is providing you sources to how you are wrong
Lmao provide me a single source for how yammy can match Baraggan's speed
Or how he can negate respira
Yammy negs Repsira. SAFYW Zaraki was said to have the reiatsu to do it. SAFYW comes after the arrancar saga. Yammy had to 2v1 no eyepatch Kenpachi and Byakuya. This makes Yammy and Kenpachi relative. Even if you don't agree, Ira can keep rising Yammy's reiatsu beyond that point, which shouldn't be far off in the first place.
Respira couldn't even rot away Soi Fon's Jakuho Raikoben, which led to Barry having to tank it. Yammy's cero is definitely stronger and faster and bigger. If Barry tried that, he would be dead lol
Even if you want to say Barry is faster, once he releases, it's not in his nature to fly around the battlefield. He just sits there and throws attacks out like Yammy. If it was, he would have dodged the rocket that Respira couldn't destroy, and he wouldn't let Hachi trap him in multiple Bakudo.
Yammy may be 0 IQ, but Barry is so arrogant I wouldn't be surprised if he overestimates his abilities and gets one shot tbh
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Not necessarily, If memory serves soi fons bankai missile survived a limited amount of time before being destroyed and wasn't it implied if it could have actually reached barragan he would have been severely wounded by it? If that is the case then with how big yammy is he might be able to hit barragan by reinforcing himself, it would however be at the expense of his own life since he would still be decayed
Depends if the whole reiatsu can overwhelm and negate your ability thing applies here, or if the fast partial cero attack can reach Barragan too
Who knows
Except in Bleach, attacks can be negated if the target just has so much. This is shown early in Ichigo’s fight against Kenpachi where Kenpachi has so much reiryoku that Ichigo literally can’t even cut him. Theoretically if Yammy just has that much reiryoku he’d just be able to negate all of Barragan’s attacks. Barragan isn’t this invincible monster, we know that base form Aizen likely wouldn’t even be affected by respira for that very reason because Aizen just has transcendent levels of reiryoku. If Yammy just has that much more reiryoku than Barragan (especially if he’s angry enough), it’s possible he’d just withstand respira
I’m with you from a lore sense since it makes zero sense that the king of hollows wouldn’t be able to flick aside Yammy, in the same way it wouldn’t make sense if Yamamoto wouldn’t be able to flick aside any of the other captains. But thinking about it in practice, it’s just logical to think that respira wouldn’t really do anything to Yammy. Wouldn’t change the fact that Yammy is still an idiot and would struggle to think of a single way around Barragan’s time dilation barrier, but Barragan would by no means clap Yammy when his most deadly attack wouldn’t even phase him
>Except in Bleach, attacks can be negated if the target just has so much. This is shown early in Ichigo’s fight against Kenpachi where Kenpachi has so much reiryoku that Ichigo literally can’t even cut him
In theory you're right
However in practice that wasn't the case. Since Byakuya dealt damage to him, and Byakuya was relative to espada number 7
That means espada number 2 will absolutely be successful in his attacks. His hax are unbeatable
Yeah. Honestly I didn't even take IQ into account, Baraggan just has superior abilities
even if you equalised their iq, Baraggan would still clap Yammy's ass with senescensia and respira
Idc about y'alls lovely empty numbahs. Does Yammy have a cannonically proven way to counter/bypass Respira? Not that I remember any. Idk how does Yammy beat Barragan then. He hits stronger, sure, cuz he has the biggest physical strength among espada. Idk how does that suddenly make him eternal and un-aging tho.
Exactly. Baraggan literally blitzed the fastest captain in his base form
He can slow down time near him, and can age things with a touch
And respira is just overkill
Yammy is toast
Not trying to be a dick but atleast read the databooks and light novels related to the topic if u want to sound so damn confident when ur fucking wrong
12 legs Yammy is comparable to 50% VL Ichigo if not stronger and pushed Zaraki to new heights and later Zaraki fights Cien, the clone of the strongest Espada and they were equal in strength
>12 legs Yammy is comparable to 50% VL Ichigo
Are you trolling? Or just dumb
That wasn't VL Ichigo, that was bankai ichigo. Unohana literally placed him at average captain reiatsu
And that still doesn't explain how Yammy can counter senescensia and respira
When did i talk about Bankai Ichigo? I said VL Ichigo. with common sense 12 legs Yammy would be equal to if not stronger than VL 50% Ichigo by taking Zaraki's growth. If Yammy can't counter that shit (that even Soi fon's Bankai could somewhat penetrate) then even people like Ichigo and Zaraki can't beat him (that includes EoS, because ur dumbass thinks respira can't be negged, the anime and manga make it clear that most hax can be negated by reiatsu)
>When did i talk about Bankai Ichigo?
You didn't, that's the problem. You mistakenly called it VL Ichigo, when it was actually just bankai ichigo
>I said VL Ichigo.
It wasn't VL Ichigo, ffs. It was bankai Ichigo. You're misremembering things, or your comprehension is bad
>the anime and manga make it clear that most hax can be negated by reiatsu
Proof? Please show me where this is demonstrated
You keep talking, but whenever I ask for proof you ignore me
How many fucking times do I have to tell you that I wasn't talking about Bankai Ichigo? Ichigo never fought the strongest version of Yammy which was offscreen when Yammy fought Zaraki and mabye Byakuya, Yammy pushed Zaraki to be stronger than VL Ichigo (50%). So if u use ur fucking brain it means Yammy FP is as strong as if not stronger than VL Ichigo (50%). I don't have links for sources of everything, especially for the things that are already accepted by the community (atleast the Powerscaling one).
>I don't have links for sources of everything
Okay, I won't even ask for a link
Just tell me the *instance* where reiatsu negation is demonstrated, such that we can conclude that yammy would reiatsu negate Baraggan
Again, I'm not even asking you for links or sources, I'll find those myself. Just tell me where it happens
Like i said (iirc either Barragan directly stated it or it was shown in action) Soi fon's Bankai could penetrate his respira due to her fire power, and her Spower and Spressure are obviously lower. Also Barragan in the Light novel blatantly stated that Zaraki could straight up negate his Respira with a single strike if his SP is high enough
>Soi fon's Bankai could penetrate his respira due to her fire power
Yeah but she didn't *negate* respira. Respira simply couldn't age it faster than the time it took to explode
>Also Barragan in the Light novel blatantly stated that Zaraki could straight up negate his Respira
Again, that wasn't negation
I don't think you know what "negating hax" means
>Just tell me the instance where reiatsu negation is demonstrated, such that we can conclude that yammy would reiatsu negate Baraggan
Aizen with Soi-fon
Tokinada not being able to put characters stronger than him under copied KS (cfyow)
>Aizen with Soi-fon
That was kyoka suigetsu
>Tokinada not being able to put characters stronger than him under copied KS
What was the reiatsu difference? If we know that, we can determine whether yammy can negate Baraggan's hax
This fan openly disagrees with Kubo and thinks he knows more than the creator of Bleach.
*The worst and yet funniest part of this entire thing: he's not the only fan who engages in outright delusion.*
> This fan openly disagrees with Kubo and thinks he knows more than the creator of Bleach.
So you're going to acknowledge feats presented by Kubo afterall?
> he's not the only fan who engages in outright delusion.
Because you're still here.
Atleast this guy respects the King Barragan unlike those Ulquiorra Stans that think Ulquiorra is the strongest Espada, even stronger than Szayleporro Granz lmao
>Atleast this guy respects the King Barragan unlike those Ulquiorra Stans that think Ulquiorra is the strongest Espada
They're the same type of fan. They believe they know more than Kubo.
I've provided overwhelming canon information and confirmation from multiple sources that Yammy is stronger than Ulquiorra, and yet I still get berated for telling the truth. Same fans who berate others for telling the truth that Barragan is weaker than Starrk and Yammy.
And the funniest shit is when we bring up Databooks and LN statements clearly stating yammy to be the strongest in raw power, they think Ulquiorra can win by being 1 mile away spamming Lanza lmfao, what a great way to win for the strongest Espada, running and spamming. But their dumbass forgot that Ichigo tanked Ulquiorra's attacks with his bare hands with 0 consequences
You’re beyond stupid if you think Szayleporro is stronger than Ulquiorra. Especially when the feats are literally in the show. Do you really think Szayleporro Released form would do anything to a ulq whose shown to have great regenerative abilities? I advise you rewatch the show if you do.
So you’re stupid is basically what you’re telling me. Szayelaporro needs prep time and Ulq second form hasn’t been seen by anyone? Didn’t Renji and Ishida almost defeat him w/ prep time? I advise you learn to comprehend.
>Szayelaporro needs prep time and Ulq second form hasn’t been seen by anyone?
No
The other fan is talking about the original Granz hollow. Canonically, the original Granz hollow, and it's copy turned arrancar (Cien) are stronger than every Espada member ever.
The lore is present in the first novel written by Narita, "Spirits Are Forever With You."
I advise you to not have the Brain power of a squirrel and remember that I told you to read the Light Novel because Szayleporro Granz was shown to be the strongest Espada in his prime. Fucking bum
This boy stupid asf he’s talking about Szayelaporro way before the events of the manga before he split himself into two arrancar. He gave that power up and doesn’t have it anymore so he’s dick riding some obscure light novel like a fucking idiot.
Lmaaaao are you gonna forget how Segunda Etapa is the fucking second release?? And how it got manhandled by VL Ichigo who is weaker than Suppressed SAFWY Zaraki who is weaker than Prime Szayleporro?? Segunda Etapa
Bull. Ulquiorra when referring to his rank DIRECTLY talked rank and strength. That was the entire point of his number reveal.
And the same with Starrk's. Starrk wasnt apologizing to Shunsui because he has the most reiatsu, he was apologizing because Shunsui had just hoped out loud that he wasnt fighting the strongest but "Sorry, Im the primera".
Yammy's entire zero reveal was about strength. They thought he was the weakest espada and were talking down to him but sorry kids, Yammy is the zero espada, the strongest.
I have trouble believing Barragan loses to Yammy as well but its BS to say the numbers arent strength related. And Barragan is getting slapped against Starrk or Ulquiorra....
Baraggan blitzed the fastest captain (barring Yamamoto) while in *base*
Meanwhile Yammy was casually no-diffed by Kenpachi and Byakuya
The speed difference couldn't be clearer
I mean, given that superior reiatsu can just nullify abilities in some cases, whose to say that Yammy can’t just get mad enough to power up and not be effected?
Well I as well make my take on this.
Yes it has been stated multiple times that Yammy is the strongest Espada, in the manga, guide books and the novels themselves aside from Syzal.
But here is the thing…feats trump statements
And going by feats there is nothing stopping Barragan from blitzing Yammy and aging him to dust. Regardless of him being stronger then him or not.
If I’m an author, and I say character A is stronger than character B and my fan base still continues to try to argue the opposite, I’d give up on them. God himself said yammy is stronger; by how much idk
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Apparently Baraggans voice actor just passed, Rip.
Rest in Peace, oh King of Hollows
I did a parkour from that post to this. May he rest in peace
Damn. May he rest in peace
Dang, Yamamoto's and now Barragan's VA... it's sad to grow old
Wait.. what?! Yamaji VA passed away?! When? Great voice acting for Yamaji. RIP
A few years ago. I think his BBS character already has the new VA
new arc has had a new VA. its pretty noticeable. They do okay, but its one of the rare time's the english VA is better. I'd recommend watching his bankai episode in the dub.
Is the English dub tybw out already?
It should be, I watched it a month ago and all but the last 3 episodes were dubbed at that point
Yep it is
I haven't rewatch it with dub version yet. Should try once available here.
Watch it all in dub if you’re English, I don’t understand people who listen to sub when they don’t understand the language, sure the VA might be a little bit better but dub is still good in lots of good anime.
That's like arguing that you should watch certain movies in English dub rather than its original material. I'm not saying you shouldn't watch in English dub if that's what you prefer, but your argument doesn't make sense.
There's no certain way you have to watch it, just watch it how you enjoy whether it's sub or dub. No need to push what you enjoy onto others
youre just weird
Thanks, normal is boring, normal people suck.
> I don’t understand people who listen to sub when they don’t understand the language Because it sounds better? I know how to read, subs aren't a big deal.
Sure but dub doesn’t sound bad, it’s quite good in lots of anime and when having to read the words it’s way worse imo for the watching experience.
> Sure but dub doesn’t sound bad NA voice work is full of nepotism that causes the quality to lag behind JPN, people who sound way out of the age range of the people they're voicing and cringe deliveries. Very few dubs are listenable, let alone good.
Most dubs for good anime I’ve heard are perfectly fine and some quite good. HxH is a great example, the dub is good and matches the characters perfectly. Bleach itself has good dub actors (sure not all are but some are talented). Lots of popular anime have a good dub like JJK, Demon Slayer, AOT, OPM, FMA, MHA, Assassination Classroom, HxH and more.
What about the non-popular ones? Again, nepotism lands the big boy roles to all the same people so growth in the scene is difficult when people can't get their name out there. It causes the pool of VAs to choose from to get diluted and the non-DBZ, Bleach, Naruto type of shows to all suffer. Add on underpaid, not an attractive job type and difficult work = recipe for poorer quality. Japan suffers from the overwork and underpay too but the VA and anime culture is wildly different. You can become a genuine star over there if you "make it" as well as different cultural and societal views on overworking. Dubs are just, as a whole, worse quality than subs and that will not change until western anime and VA culture radically shift.
You're right, it doesn't sound bad, it sounds fucking horrible
It rarely sounds horrible, a majority of good anime have a good dub.
Tell me you have never watched something in its original iteration without telling me. Anyway you're entitled to your opinion, cheers.
The original voice acting is better 9 times out of 10, so I stick to sub. And while you can say it's somewhat up to preference, there is a real amount of objectivity in saying that sub is better (in most cases). One of the reasons is how everything happens in the same studio, so there is less of a disconnect. Also for argument's sake, we're only talking about English dub, because there wouldn't even be an argument if we considered dubs in other languages, like French. The French dub for Bleach is pretty bad.
He's in hueco mundo now
He’s also the voice of Nappa, so hopefully he’s actually in Other World and not Hueno Mundo. Hueco Mundo is kind of a shithole.
But Hueco Mundo was Barragans shithole. He was the king.
Nah, he is hunting vegeta now
Oh damn..
English or Japanese? Either way, RIP
The Japanese VA Shōzō Iizuka he was almost 90 years old(1933-2023) and he was active from 1950-2023 for his career. He was even in Astro Boy one of the first anime.
What an impressive career!
Wait what he was working this year too, right before passing? That's insane, he must have had a fulfilling life. Get it? Fulfilling and him being king of hollows...but rest in peace to a 🐐
Wait really?
The main issue with Yammy is his lack of intelligence. He also wasn’t even the original Cero Espada as that designation belonged to Szael back when he was fused his brother. Yammy merely has a higher amount of reiatsu, but that doesn’t count for much if he can’t use it effectively considering how he fails at basic Arrancar abilities like Pesquisa. And even still, powerful characters can still take damage and can even be killed by much weaker characters if they’re outmaneuvered. Barragan for example should have won against Soi Fon and Hachi easily, but the reason he lost was because of his pride and arrogance. This allowed his foes to turn his power against him. We see this with Yamamoto who got scarred by Chojiro when he used his Bankai. Had Yamamoto been actually using his power, he would have brushed off Chojiro’s attack. This is also a similar thing with Kenpachi who has stronger levels of reiatsu than SS Ichigo. He however placed shackles on himself which weakened him and restricted him from using his full power.
Yammy has a high amount of reiatsu but it isn’t dense at all. He’s basically just a big blob of power and in bleach the density of reiatsu is usually more important than the amount
It's barely been a day and we're already back to this debate
the anime can't come back soon enough smh.
Why is bleach so active right now? Is a new one coming out or something?
Not sure if you’re joking or not, but if you’re not, yes. After 10 years of the TYBW manga arc never being animated, we finally got it animated, with the best animation the series has had so far. It’s being released in bits and pieces so that Kubo can help write and draw it to include story elements he left out of the manga and to correct some plot points. The first cour ran for several weeks starting in October 2022 and the next cour is set to start July of this year. It’s the biggest thing to happen to Bleach since, well, since they stopped animating it a decade ago. Combined with the release of a one-shot manga that looks like it’s the beginning of a new manga arc, and yeah, the entire fan base has been re-ignited for the first time in a *long* time.
Not joking at all. Thanks for the summary!! I gotta start watching again!
For sure! I’m bad at detecting sarcasm and I didn’t want to be an asshole. If you haven’t read TYBW, I would maybe even wait until after the anime is out. Kubo kinda rushed through the manga arc because he had some mental and physical health issues going on, so the anime with him in the writing room is shaping up to be a better version of the story, IMO. I hope it keeps going that way.
All good! It would t have been a good joke anyways lol. I dont read mangas. I like to watch Anime’s to fully experience the crazy anime moments and the ups and downs in its full animated glory.
I don't even know why it's a debate Senescensia and respira clap Yammy's ass Only number rank fans make excuses for why Yammy would win. The most ridiculous argument is that yammy could reiatsu neg Barragan's abilities. When I asked for proof that the reiatsu difference is high enough, he said "the numbers are proof"
I have my opinions on the matter but none of these posts are gonna settle the argument lol. It's been going on for almost 15 years
What I don't understand is, is why you try to change the ranking to begin with? Kubo wrote the damn thing. If he says Yammy is the strongest, then he is the fucking strongest. Besides, respira takes time to affect someone. Soi fon had enough time to argue with her luitenant about cutting off her arm, and she still ended up surviving. Yammy can grow to a 1000x her size, maybe even larger. For all we know it'd take hours for his respira to gnaw through all that muscle, and we haven't even touched the fact that hierro could slow it down, and Yammy could technically even regenerate if he can continue to grow and evolve. All this time he just needs one or two solid hits on Barragan, and he's a dead man.
>What I don't understand is, is why you try to change the ranking to begin with? I'm not. Read the title >Kubo wrote the damn thing. If he says Yammy is the strongest, then he is the fucking strongest. Strongest doesnt mean "would win in a fight" I agree yammy is stronger than Baraggan. But my point is Baraggan would beat yammy in a fight
Yammy has 2 spots over Barragan, and the difference within the top 3, between Stark and Harribel for example, is absolutely massive. Yammy doesn't just have punching strength, you know. He has cero's and it's variants of them, which would definitely be too much for anyone to handle point blank. Yammy isn't flashy or full of hax, but if Soi Fon's bankai can damage Barragan, Yammy can demolish him for sure
>if Soi Fon's bankai can damage Barragan, Yammy can demolish him for sure Yammy's way too slow. Baraggan massively outspeeds him. Yammy will never hit him Conversely, Baraggan can easily tag him. When he does, it's all over, due to senescensia/respira
That'a just headcannon considering he did do quite a lot of damage to both Kenpachi and Byakuya, and they're by no means slow. So even if he couldn't touch them all the time, at the very least he can get a few hits in, not to mention high power bala's and cero's. And I thought we just discussed that respira doesn't mean instant death? So no, Baragan touching him doesn't mean it's all over, it just means there's probably a time limit on how long the fight can be drawn out.
>they're by no means slow They're not slow, but soi fon is still faster. And Baraggan casually blitzed her. While in *base* And this isn't even including his time dilation field >Baragan touching him doesn't mean it's all over, it just means there's probably a time limit on how long the fight can be drawn out But that time limit is for Yammy. Baraggan will never get hit
It was pretty clear that Soi Fon was faster, and his time dialation field was the only thing keeping him from getting out-speed up close. Never have I heard anyone say Barragan is faster, just because of one nitpicky moment meant for dramatic effect. It's just Kubo's thing to do it with cool characters. But sure, Baraggan is a speed demon, he can kill anyone he pleases with just one touch, not even the Soul King can beat this man, you're absolutely right
>It was pretty clear that Soi Fon was faster, and his time dialation field was the only thing keeping him from getting out-speed up close Not talking about the time dilation scene He literally perception blitzed her. Two different feats
He caught Ichigo who's way faster than Soi fon
That version of Ichigo wasn't Unohana placed him at average captain reiatsu
> Yammy has 2 spots over Barragan, and the difference within the top 3, between Stark and Harribel for example, is absolutely massive. That's because Harribel shouldn't have been 3 to begin with. > He has cero's and it's variants of them, which would definitely be too much for anyone to handle point blank. Yammy isn't flashy or full of hax, but if Soi Fon's bankai can damage Barragan, Yammy can demolish him for sure How did you even scale Yammy's cero above JR? [A simple Getsuga appears to deal with his Cero no problem](https://i.imgur.com/cNS30l0.png). You can also argue it was Cero Oscuras, which makes this even worse. Even if you manage to disprove this, Starrk's Ceros were bad and definitely not comparable to JR. Why would Yammy's Cero be this much stronger?
> What I don't understand is, is why you try to change the ranking to begin with? Kubo wrote the damn thing. If he says Yammy is the strongest, then he is the fucking strongest. Kubo also drew the manga and performance of Espada which you now entirely discard. > Besides, respira takes time to affect someone. It doesn't take time to affect someone, it slowly spreads to entire body. Which is irrelevant, because Yammy isn't going to do anything anyway during this time. > Yammy can grow to a 1000x her size, maybe even larger. Yammy said that he never got his big and his size wasn't even 500x of his base. Unless you think his height was like few kilometers. He also needs to get really angry. > For all we know it'd take hours for his respira to gnaw through all that muscle, and we haven't even touched the fact that hierro could slow it down, and Yammy could technically even regenerate if he can continue to grow and evolve. Even if it's true (it's baseless assumption, Yammy grows in size the angrier he is and against Zaraki and Byakuya he admitted he never got this big), it doesn't matter. All Barragan has to do is wait... ... or used Respira over and over and over again until it covers most, if not entire body. > All this time he just needs one or two solid hits on Barragan, and he's a dead man. Buddy, Ichigo blocked Yammy's attack without a problem and Zaraki was hit by an off guard punch and crashed into building - he came out just fine. He is also insanely slow, [he couldn't tag a fucking Rukia of all people](https://i.imgur.com/DJZH18r.png). Barragan tanked a fucking Jakohou Raikoben from point blank range in an enclosed space. Yammy has absolutely nothing on Barragan. I swear, Yammy wank is getting out of hand on this sub.
Yammy is trash. Kudos scaling is also trash
You do know that it was stated in the fucking databooks that his Reiatsu was more than 2x of the other Espadas in his Ape form right? This is the same Yammy that pushed Zaraki to be stronger than 50% VL Ichigo and equal or greater than VL while suppressed
No, it says his reiatsu is 2x compared to his base. Which is massive, but it doesn't mean he has 2x the reiatsu of like, Starrk, who was a walking extinction, and Barragan, who ruled Hueco Mundo. Most supplementary material puts him as above, but still comparable to Starrk and Barragan.
Mb
>You do know that it was stated in the fucking databooks that his Reiatsu was more than 2x of the other Espadas in his Ape form right? My question remains the same What proof is there that a 2x difference is enough for reiatsu negation?
>What proof is there that a 2x difference is enough for reiatsu negation? I'm curious compañero If 100 is an average captain level Reiastu, where would you value: * R2 Ulquiorra * Released Barragan * R1 Yammy * Ape Yammy * Released Starrk * FH Ichigo
Who is an average Captain? Kubo is pretty particular about never really giving clear distinctions between characters on power level. The only character easily placeable would be Aizen, at around 200.
Ok then by ur logic Zaraki and VL Ichigo loses to Barragan, gotcha
Lmao why did you dodge the question? I'm still asking for proof that Baraggan can be reiatsu negged
It was literally shown in the show that with strong enough attacks (meaning high enough reiatsu) his respira can be negated, there is a reason someone like Starkk with overwhelming reiatsu and infinite firepower ranks above Barragan even tho he was the King of Hueco Mundo
>It was literally shown in the show that with strong enough attacks (meaning high enough reiatsu) his respira can be negated Cite the scene that demonstrates this >there is a reason someone like Starkk with overwhelming reiatsu and infinite firepower ranks above Barragan Yes, and that reason is reiryoku
Cite the proof that Yammy will lose then. If you want your proof so badly that proves you're right. Tell me in full, with links to the pages from bleach manga that PROVE without a doubt you're right and Barragan would win against Yammy. You find me actual proof and I'll believe you over everyone else downvoting you. Oh wait you can't. Because it's been debated for 15 years now and you aren't special. The proof we need isn't just going to be overlooked all this time by everyone excluding you. We've tried and it's inconclusive bar opinion and person head canon. Even the defeat of Yammy was cut so we know next to nothing about his zero ape mode. I know nothing about it, and so do you. We don't even see the battle between him Byakuya and Kenny. But I think it's rather telling Kubo wrote it in that it was those two that defeated him. You know his two strongest poster boys. Says a lot, it's not like he sent a couple lieutenants after Yammy did he? So come on, where's the proof to your argument that no one has spotted or seen all this time?
>Cite the proof that Yammy will lose 1)Speed difference He casually blitzed the [fastest](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRbfrXqI0if60v-x7q6kWl8OkRO58h1CDbiMg&usqp=CAU) captain. Senescensia time dilation field adds yet [another](http://pa1.narvii.com/5728/50343144bfe1a73fc0dff2900d88e053fe427611_00.gif) layer to his speed. And this is all in his *base* form Meanwhile released Yammy was tagged by Byakuya and Kenpachi, and Soi Fon is faster than both of them 2) Respira is a [one-shot ](https://i.makeagif.com/media/2-25-2016/IMP5YH.gif) , because yammy doesn't have regeneration. Senescensia is a [one-tap](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRbfrXqI0if60v-x7q6kWl8OkRO58h1CDbiMg&usqp=CAU) fatal strike Massive speed difference + superior hax gives Baraggan the win >Even the defeat of Yammy was cut so we know next to nothing about his zero ape mode. I know nothing about it, and so do you We know that he was tagged by Kenpachi and Byakuya. Which proves my speed point >So come on, where's the proof to your argument that no one has spotted or seen all this time? Lmao
"What proof is there that a 2x difference is enough for Reiatsu negation?" Where's yours that it isn't enough? Neither of us have proof either way, which is why the debate is still on going.
>Where's yours that it isn't enough? Askin vs Ichigo Aizen vs Yhwach
What does this prove? Do you have specific Reiatsu numbers for all of them?
Barragan sonidos to Yammys head and releases respira - wins. Yammy tries to bala him and punches himself in the face. Yammy is the TFS Krillen of bleach.
That’s an insult to Krillen
As others have said, multiple sources put yammy as being deserving of his rank, though it also doesn’t necessarily denote who would win in a fight since hax and a good matchup can overcome a difference in general performance. That said, people sell yammy way too short just because we didn’t get to view his fight/ because byakuya and kenpachi seemed to view him as a nuisance, but we didn’t get to see how hard it went down once the real fight began and the fact that the two captains returned together implies that they ended up having to take it seriously and work together. Novels confirm that baraggan’s respira can be blown away with enough force, and with that in mind I could certainly see a full force cero from yammy overwhelming respira. We’ve seen how relatively slowly it takes effect, I can’t see it ageing a gigantic fast moving cero before it hits its target. That said, that’s the only scenario I can see yammy winning in and it would involve baraggan sitting there and letting respira do all the work, in reality baraggan surely speedblitzes in close and tags yammy with respira, yammy doesn’t really have an answer to it other than ripping off an affected limb if he’s fast (and getting tagged multiple times over by respira again while he does so). Tldr; baraggan takes this pretty handily, but yammy deserves his higher rank canonically by more than just reiryoku. Since there’s no metric for how close they are, my headcanon is that the top three are basically in the same ballpark
We see a partially healed Kenpachi pretty easily handling and carving up R1 Yammy, while swinging 1-handed and wearing his eye patch. Fully healthy, in the same situation he could barely even scratch a fully sealed Nnoitra. Yammy’s fights are all heavily reminiscent of Ichigo’s substitute Zanpakuto and Grand Fisher’s Ressurreccion. He’s a great big, squidgy ball of poorly controlled power. A mid-breakdown Ichigo snipped his arm off like it was made of tissue paper; Grimmjow caught multiple similar swings barehanded and wasn’t even scratched. His direct output is massive (that cero for instance) but he’s slow, soft and uncoordinated. I’m definitely in the camp of, his reserves are the largest, but his combat prowess is sorely lacking.
Regarding nicking him like he’s made of tissue paper, the fact that that’s all it did was something of a feat (at least, ichigo was shocked to see that his most powerful attack was little more than an annoying paper cut) It’s also worth noting that kenpachi gets notably stronger from unlocking his self imposed limits every time he’s pushed to the brink, so he’s probably actually even stronger than when he fought nnoitra when he attacks (though it’s impossible to say since he also wasn’t fully healed) But overall yeah, I think he’s ‘technically’ the strongest in more than just reiryoku, but when it comes to actual combat prowess his size just ruins any chance he has against other opponents in his tier. In particular, he was up against kenpachi who’s specialty is gigantic powerhouses and byakuya whose tiny blades could go right up his nose, in his eyes etc. I think of it like a human vs a hornet that can shoot it’s stingers; the hornet is far squishier and weaker in every way, but it doesn’t mean anything if it can’t be hit, the fight would just end with the human riddled with stingers
I meant in Karakura. Ichigo took his entire arm clean off, single swing, no Getsuga, no amped Reiatsu. He’s the only Espada that Ichigo ever managed anything like that with. The rest could all catch his Bankai barehanded. And yet Yammy is meant to have the second hardest Hierro. And Yammy nailed Kenpachi at least once during their fight… kicked him through a building if I recall correctly. And barely even scuffed him, while Noitra rather casually shoved his hand straight through Kenpachi. The issue with Yammy really is that he’s made out to be a big deal… but every actual fight that he has is a one-sided embarrassment where his opponents toy with him. Ichigo crippled him, then Yoruichi absolutely sand-bagged him. Urahara treated their fight with total contempt. He managed to actually grab hold of Ichigo, but couldn’t even do any lasting damage from that position of power. And then Kenpachi and Byakuya treated him like an irritation preventing them from focusing on fighting each other. Kubo constantly builds him up off panel. And then every on-panel fight for him is a complete embarrassment.
In fairness, yammy is noted to be the only member who changes number in resurrection because his base form is comparatively disappointing; Ichigo took his arm off while he was in base and ranked lower than aaeroniero, and coupled with the fact that Ichigo is an awful metric for powerscaling in that in that very encounter ulquiorra notes that ichigos power is constantly fluctuating from too small to detect to being even greater than his own, perhaps the most notable example being when he went from struggling against grimmjow to one shotting him because he got serious And again, kenpachi vs nnoitra feats aren’t really relevant since we can’t gauge his strength; fully healed kenpachi after the nnoitra fight is far stronger than before it, but given that he’s taken damage that would of course weaken him, though in my personal opinion I’m sure he’d be stronger given how much he shrugs off damage and doesn’t really let it weaken him unless he’s unable to move. I’d be inclined to think yammy stomps pre nnoitra fight kenpachi, at least until kenpachi unlocks even more power during the fight and wins round 2 Ultimately, the only feats that really matter for yammy in this case are his feats as the 0 espada, and those feats are having treated ichigos attack of unknown strength as a papercut and having landed a hit on Kenpachi who’s strength also can’t really be gauged, and the rest happens off screen. It’s a hugely disappointing send off after the hype, but there’s nothing that actually indicates that yammy was weak (beyond having glaring weaknesses in his size, but that’s combat practicality rather than any sort of strength metrics the espada would be ranked by)
>We see a partially healed Kenpachi pretty easily handling and carving up R1 Yammy, while swinging 1-handed and wearing his eye patch. Fully healthy, in the same situation he could barely even scratch a fully sealed Nnoitra. Kenpachi explicitly got stronger following his fight with Nnoitora, that's a bad example.
Kenpachi’s whole gig is that he self-limits to however strong he needs to be to enjoy a fight. Hence why he can lose to Ichigo and then immediately clap Tosen. Before losing to Ichigo he was already able to 1-tap a Captain and impress Yamamoto enough to abandon training him after 1 day; but he could still lose to a half-healed Ichigo, who’d just nearly lost to Renji. His whole issue is that his strength varies constantly with his opponents. Its not a Zenkai, its a self-imposed limiter.
> That said, people sell yammy way too short No they don't. They sell him at exactly where he was demonstrated to be. Byakuya and Kenpachi swatted him away like a fly. You can make up anything happening off screen. For instance, my head canon is that Dondachaka showed up, hit Yammy with the Rock Bottom and then asked Byakuya if he could smell what The Chaka was cooking. Just as much evidence for that happening.
Official sources > that headcanon
I always thought the espada got their ranks based on how well they killed stuff not on just how strong they are.Was this a mistranslation or am I sippin that Quincy lean❓
Yes data book calls their ranking based on "killing ability"
*This sub is approaching YouTube short level of head-canon. It's quite concerning tbh, when fans outright think they know more than Kubo.* [*https://www.reddit.com/r/bleach/comments/u0elpv/i\_am\_so\_sick\_and\_tired\_of\_hearing\_espada\_ranked/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3*](https://www.reddit.com/r/bleach/comments/u0elpv/i_am_so_sick_and_tired_of_hearing_espada_ranked/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) If you want to disagree with Kubo when he says they're ranked in overall power (databook 2, 3, and manga) then do so :)
For real, it's one thing to think that Yammy was offscreened and that showing wise he didn't live up like the rest of the Espadas (which is true) but that's another thing to try so hard to discredit what is officially stated and to chalk it up to a new meaning
>https://www.reddit.com/r/bleach/comments/u0elpv/i_am_so_sick_and_tired_of_hearing_espada_ranked/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 "Merit, efficiency, competency, faculty" You're really trynna argue that Yammy is the best by these metrics? Even canonically it doesn't make sense, because the only thing that changes in his transformation is his power And you seem to be conflating "power" with "who'd win in a fight" Yammy has no actual way of winning when he's up against senescensia and respira
Espada ranking is based on power/strength. The strongest fighter is the lowest Espada (lower the rank, the stronger they are). The ranking also has criteria in which the fighter will be evaluated: * Killing Ability * Lethality * Spiritual Power >"Merit, efficiency, competency, faculty", You're really trynna argue that Yammy is the best by these metrics? Merit? Yes. Not only did Kubo say he deserved the ranking, as I provided scans of this in at least 3 of my posts/collages, but it took two notable captains to take him down in 1v1. Efficiency/competency? He's not skilled in pesquisa, however his lack of "competency" allows him to grow angrier, which actually fuels his power. The angrier he gets, the stronger he gets. In that way, he definitely is ranked accurate on "faculty". >Even canonically it doesn't make sense, because the only thing that changes in his transformation is his power Reiatsu, physical strength, size all increase. All notable changes for someone who already had a lot of physical strength. >Yammy has no actual way of winning when he's up against senescensia and respira Given that Soi Fon's Bankai was almost able to one-shot Barrgan, despite him having both Respira and Senescencia, and both of Yammy's released forms outclass her in Reiatsu, I don't think Kubo was wrong in his rankings. But again, his rankings. Not yours or mine or a random amigo.
The fact he is arguing Kubo the creators ranking is beyond me 😭😭😭
I feel like Kubo's words support his argument more than anything...Yammy is potentially powerful but he's not good at fighting
I feel like a lot of people get hung up on “Kubo said it, so that’s it—the end.” We don’t let authors in written media get away with that. The author has a duty to the audience to make sense out of something that doesn’t make sense. If George RR Martin writes an inconsistency, there’s always a huge recognition of it from the fans, and he usually ends up retconning it. I’ve read what Kubo has to say about the rankings, and there’s a couple of things that just don’t make sense to me about the rankings being absolute and administered by the Hand of God: Sosuke Aizen created the Espada system, regardless of who was and wasn’t already an Arrancar. He hid the true Cero, he “hid” Ulquiorra’s Segunda Etapa, he hid Wonderweiss, and he hid Tosen’s Resureccion. That already shows that he ranked some of them more strategically than “biggest boom gets smallest number.” Now, this argument is weakest against Yammy, Ulquiorra, Wonderweiss, and Tosen, but I still think there’s more that the reader brings to the table in this relationship than “Kubo said it one time.”
Yammy's gran rey or CO would be terrifyingly powerful lol. think if Mayuri successfully got his corpse like he did the Privarones for the TYBW. since he amped them, he amps Yammy too?
> The ranking also has criteria in which the fighter will be evaluated: > Killing Ability > Lethality > Spiritual Power So Yammy at the very absolute best only fulfills spiritual power metric then? > Merit? Yes. Not only did Kubo say he deserved the ranking, as I provided scans of this in at least 3 of my posts/collages, Why are you going with meta argument when it's clearly about in-universe argument? The merit refers to Yammy deserving the 0 spot. What did he do exactly to deserve 0 spot? > Efficiency/competency? He's not skilled in pesquisa, however his lack of "competency" allows him to grow angrier, which actually fuels his power. The angrier he gets, the stronger he gets. In that way, he definitely is ranked accurate on "faculty". So no competency then. And therefore no efficiency. > but it took two notable captains to take him down in 1v1. In ape form. Scans are clearly talking about released form. Which Zaraki and Byakuya absolutely toyed with. He wasn't even considered a threat to them. And even then, he was Espada 0. Starrk handled Love and Rose. It's embarrassing for Yammy to not handle Zaraki and Byakuya even after he powered up after his released form which was supposed to be already the strongest among Espadas. He doesn't live up to his supposed power. > Reiatsu, physical strength, size all increase. All notable changes for someone who already had a lot of physical strength. So basically, his power. Not notable enough anyway, he wasn't doing jack shit to weakened Ichigo or Zaraki. > Given that Soi Fon's Bankai was almost able to one-shot Barrgan, Given by who? There is no evidence for this. While we are at it, how is it relevant if Yammy didn't show destructive feats on par with JR? > despite him having both Respira and Senescencia, It was a point blank attack, both Respira and Senescencia did not matter. > and both of Yammy's released forms outclass her in Reiatsu, So did Barragan to Soifon and what? Dangai Ichigo outclassed Monster Aizen in reiatsu by even greater metric, still got hurt by Fragor. > But again, his rankings. Not yours or mine or a random amigo. His manga, his feats, his presentation of his own characters. Not yours.
>however his lack of "competency" allows him to grow angrier, which actually fuels his power So competency is already one thats directly contradicted So is efficiency >Reiatsu, physical strength, size all increase But none of those affect him mentally. So those metrics still get contradicted >Given that Soi Fon's Bankai was almost able to one-shot Barrgan he let her hit him Even base Baraggan massively outspeeds R1 yammy, so he doesn't have a chance of hitting him >despite him having both Respira and Senescencia He didn't use senescensia, he only used respira >I don't think Kubo was wrong in his rankings. I don't think he was either. I'm just saying the rankings don't measure who would win in a fight, they just measure power Looks like you didn't read the post
You’re just casually contradicting yourself.
Where have I contradicted myself
>>"Merit, efficiency, competency, faculty"You're really trynna argue that Yammy is the best by these metrics? Yes , because those things is what Japanese people use to describe people who good at their jobs.Espada’s job is being strong in a fight, it’s the whole point.If Yammy is stronger than others therefore he is more efficient and competent as an Espada than others.
Alright, but that still brings me back to my original point that power isn't the same as "would win in a fight" I'm not denying that yammy has more power. I'm just saying he'd lose to Baraggan in a fight
>>Alright, but that still brings me back to my original point that power isn't the same as "would win in a fight" I agree with you in theory.Weaker characters could win a fight , but Manga/Databooks/Novels all treated Espada ranking with “lower number would win” , so I personally see it as Author’s intent even if logically it’s not that consistent. In Yammy’s case, I always thought that, he could be pretty easily killed, by weaker characters if his Eyes were attacked.But sometimes we should use “anime logic”. P.s Barragan and Yammy in my opinion shared 1 trait , they both awful fighters.
>P.s Barragan and Yammy in my opinion shared 1 trait I think Baraggan suffered from plot In base form, he blitzed the fastest captain, and demonstrated the most underrated ability ever (senescensia). Then in resureccion he just stopped using them. Hell, he literally stopped moving, he just stayed still and let attacks hit him Kubo realised his abilities were too OP and tried to fix it by making him lazy/laidback
>>I think Baraggan suffered from plot Espada definitely should kill more characters >>Kubo realised his abilities were too OP and tried to fix it by making him lazy/laidback He just made him toooooo arrogant
I'd say 1-4 would clap Yammy, they are all either fast and agile or have some sort of an OP ability.
Based on what? Your headcanon?
Based on feats Barragan massively outspeeds him Senescensia and respira clap Yammy's ass
Your just ignoring the massive feats i gave for Yammy :/
None of them are for speed He's still slow as fuck. None of his attacks would touch Baraggan, who *in base* was able to blitz the fastest captain. And also has a time dilation field that slows down anything that gets close to him Meanwhile senescensia or respira is essentially a one-shot defeat against yammy
There is no point in arguing anymore, it's gonna be the same shit over and over. Yammy is stronger in every aspect but Barragan has his Respira which u think Yammy can't negate
>Yammy is stronger in every aspect Every aspect? You're just ignoring speed 💀 >Barragan has his Respira which u think Yammy can't negate You still haven't proved why he *can* negate it I've asked for proof since the beginning of this conversation and you haven't provided it
Ok mb, he gets speed aswell. I have? U just don't want to accept it. Aizen literally negated an insta kill hax and that proves Reiatsu>Hax in most cases, Yammy obviously has more Reiatsu than Barragan as per Databook statements and comparing him with Zaraki. By ur logic Soi fon's broken ass shikai can One shot Aizen if she actually lands it, she can literally one shot (technically not one shot but..) anyone in the series regardless of how powerful they are. Imagine soi fon one shoting Yhwach lmfao, yes Yhwach can be rewrite the future but still, her shikai working on someone like him?
>Ok mb, he gets speed aswell Lmao how Baraggan blitzed Soi Fon while in *base* Meanwhile released yammy was no-diffed by Kenpachi and Byakuya >Aizen literally negated an insta kill hax and that proves Reiatsu>Hax Kyoka Suigetsu
I said my bad he (Barragan) gets speed aswell not Yammy. No diffed? Have u been reading anything i said? The fight was offscreen so u don't know if he got no diffed. In fact it's impossible since Zaraki appeared alot stronger in SAFWY which means Yammy was responsible for it, Zaraki ain't getting stronger if he is no diffing someone
>The fight was offscreen The R1 fight was onscreen >In fact it's impossible since Zaraki appeared alot stronger in SAFWY which means Yammy was responsible for it, Zaraki ain't getting stronger if he is no diffing someone It's very possible. Zaraki no-diffed nnoitra once he used kendo. Yet his boost after the nnoitra fight was insane Besides he could've fought more opponents after yammy
Databook and manga: Yammi is the strongest espada r/Bleach: Barragan is stronger
It takes him a while to get more powerful tho.
Lmao did you even read the title? I swear most fans just wanna argue
Except that he's stated to be the strongest not just have the highest reiatsu
My point still stands. Stronger isnt the same as "would win in a fight" I'm not denying that yammy has more strength. I'm just saying he'd lose to Baraggan in a fight
He says, arguing furiously in the comments with anyone that dares to disagree ‘Something something you’re just dumb something something show me all your evidence along with a peer reviewed thesis something something did you even *read* the manga’ It’s just cartoon ghosts dude, chill
>He says, arguing furiously in the comments with anyone that dares to disagree I have no problem if they disagree. I'm just gonna need canon backing, not headcanon lol >It’s just cartoon ghosts dude, chill You must be new to this sub
Not new, rather I’ve made the same mistake myself of being that guy and learned that it’s really not worth getting a bee in my bonnet about getting everyone to agree with how a matchup goes down It’s pretty obvious that you’re right that yammy simply doesn’t have an answer to baraggan speedblitzing with his one hit KO move (which works on hax with an ageing effect rather than relying on power like ichigo would) and going by what wounded/ killed yammy the idea that yammy reiatsu negs is laughable, but people on Reddit are gonna have dumb alternate takes that they’ll die on their hill to defend and there’s no point getting worked up/ seeking an argument with them, nor is it worth stooping to their level to be slinging condescension at each other. These aren’t even the worst takes I’ve seen, I’ve seen more than one person swear down that Itachi could low diff beerus because ‘zetsu says the yata mirror and totsuka blade combo makes him invincible so he survives Earths destruction, but beerus wouldn’t even get the chance to attack because Itachi has FTL feats and can just seal him with the totsuka blade’, there’s no point getting upset while trying to convince redditors of anything once they’ve made their mind up on a vs thread
You are literally the only here wanting to argue. Everyone else is providing you sources to how you are wrong and you're so far up your own ass you can't accept that you're just wrong.
>Everyone else is providing you sources to how you are wrong Lmao provide me a single source for how yammy can match Baraggan's speed Or how he can negate respira
With Yammy's feats I'm pretty sure even I could take him on
Yammy negs Repsira. SAFYW Zaraki was said to have the reiatsu to do it. SAFYW comes after the arrancar saga. Yammy had to 2v1 no eyepatch Kenpachi and Byakuya. This makes Yammy and Kenpachi relative. Even if you don't agree, Ira can keep rising Yammy's reiatsu beyond that point, which shouldn't be far off in the first place. Respira couldn't even rot away Soi Fon's Jakuho Raikoben, which led to Barry having to tank it. Yammy's cero is definitely stronger and faster and bigger. If Barry tried that, he would be dead lol Even if you want to say Barry is faster, once he releases, it's not in his nature to fly around the battlefield. He just sits there and throws attacks out like Yammy. If it was, he would have dodged the rocket that Respira couldn't destroy, and he wouldn't let Hachi trap him in multiple Bakudo. Yammy may be 0 IQ, but Barry is so arrogant I wouldn't be surprised if he overestimates his abilities and gets one shot tbh
demon slayer and bleach fans on their way to disprove a ranking system that has ALREADY been put in place for a reason
I think the top 4 espada could clap him. He's too much of a big stationary target.
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THE NUMBERS MASON! WHAT DO THEY MEAN?
Not necessarily, If memory serves soi fons bankai missile survived a limited amount of time before being destroyed and wasn't it implied if it could have actually reached barragan he would have been severely wounded by it? If that is the case then with how big yammy is he might be able to hit barragan by reinforcing himself, it would however be at the expense of his own life since he would still be decayed
I could see Respira affecting Yammy in his First ress... but he he would just rage and get big and denied Respira of even working!
Depends if the whole reiatsu can overwhelm and negate your ability thing applies here, or if the fast partial cero attack can reach Barragan too Who knows
Yama is Giriko of Espada. Perhaps, Giriko in his Hulk form was "the strongest", but he was still complete trash.
Except in Bleach, attacks can be negated if the target just has so much. This is shown early in Ichigo’s fight against Kenpachi where Kenpachi has so much reiryoku that Ichigo literally can’t even cut him. Theoretically if Yammy just has that much reiryoku he’d just be able to negate all of Barragan’s attacks. Barragan isn’t this invincible monster, we know that base form Aizen likely wouldn’t even be affected by respira for that very reason because Aizen just has transcendent levels of reiryoku. If Yammy just has that much more reiryoku than Barragan (especially if he’s angry enough), it’s possible he’d just withstand respira I’m with you from a lore sense since it makes zero sense that the king of hollows wouldn’t be able to flick aside Yammy, in the same way it wouldn’t make sense if Yamamoto wouldn’t be able to flick aside any of the other captains. But thinking about it in practice, it’s just logical to think that respira wouldn’t really do anything to Yammy. Wouldn’t change the fact that Yammy is still an idiot and would struggle to think of a single way around Barragan’s time dilation barrier, but Barragan would by no means clap Yammy when his most deadly attack wouldn’t even phase him
>Except in Bleach, attacks can be negated if the target just has so much. This is shown early in Ichigo’s fight against Kenpachi where Kenpachi has so much reiryoku that Ichigo literally can’t even cut him In theory you're right However in practice that wasn't the case. Since Byakuya dealt damage to him, and Byakuya was relative to espada number 7 That means espada number 2 will absolutely be successful in his attacks. His hax are unbeatable
Sexually?
He literally lost to kenpachi and byakuya, that makes him someone renji could prob beat, he’s fodder asf
But he canonically fought Renji and two other opponents at once and won.
Tbh with how much of a fucking brainlet Yammy is Baraggan could probably win if he tackles it right.
Yeah. Honestly I didn't even take IQ into account, Baraggan just has superior abilities even if you equalised their iq, Baraggan would still clap Yammy's ass with senescensia and respira
Can we just make a mega thread for these discussions? The quality of the subreddit goes downhill when there's a new post about this every single day
Idc about y'alls lovely empty numbahs. Does Yammy have a cannonically proven way to counter/bypass Respira? Not that I remember any. Idk how does Yammy beat Barragan then. He hits stronger, sure, cuz he has the biggest physical strength among espada. Idk how does that suddenly make him eternal and un-aging tho.
Exactly. Baraggan literally blitzed the fastest captain in his base form He can slow down time near him, and can age things with a touch And respira is just overkill Yammy is toast
Not trying to be a dick but atleast read the databooks and light novels related to the topic if u want to sound so damn confident when ur fucking wrong
Explain how I'm wrong, smart guy
12 legs Yammy is comparable to 50% VL Ichigo if not stronger and pushed Zaraki to new heights and later Zaraki fights Cien, the clone of the strongest Espada and they were equal in strength
>12 legs Yammy is comparable to 50% VL Ichigo Are you trolling? Or just dumb That wasn't VL Ichigo, that was bankai ichigo. Unohana literally placed him at average captain reiatsu And that still doesn't explain how Yammy can counter senescensia and respira
When did i talk about Bankai Ichigo? I said VL Ichigo. with common sense 12 legs Yammy would be equal to if not stronger than VL 50% Ichigo by taking Zaraki's growth. If Yammy can't counter that shit (that even Soi fon's Bankai could somewhat penetrate) then even people like Ichigo and Zaraki can't beat him (that includes EoS, because ur dumbass thinks respira can't be negged, the anime and manga make it clear that most hax can be negated by reiatsu)
>When did i talk about Bankai Ichigo? You didn't, that's the problem. You mistakenly called it VL Ichigo, when it was actually just bankai ichigo >I said VL Ichigo. It wasn't VL Ichigo, ffs. It was bankai Ichigo. You're misremembering things, or your comprehension is bad >the anime and manga make it clear that most hax can be negated by reiatsu Proof? Please show me where this is demonstrated You keep talking, but whenever I ask for proof you ignore me
How many fucking times do I have to tell you that I wasn't talking about Bankai Ichigo? Ichigo never fought the strongest version of Yammy which was offscreen when Yammy fought Zaraki and mabye Byakuya, Yammy pushed Zaraki to be stronger than VL Ichigo (50%). So if u use ur fucking brain it means Yammy FP is as strong as if not stronger than VL Ichigo (50%). I don't have links for sources of everything, especially for the things that are already accepted by the community (atleast the Powerscaling one).
>I don't have links for sources of everything Okay, I won't even ask for a link Just tell me the *instance* where reiatsu negation is demonstrated, such that we can conclude that yammy would reiatsu negate Baraggan Again, I'm not even asking you for links or sources, I'll find those myself. Just tell me where it happens
Like i said (iirc either Barragan directly stated it or it was shown in action) Soi fon's Bankai could penetrate his respira due to her fire power, and her Spower and Spressure are obviously lower. Also Barragan in the Light novel blatantly stated that Zaraki could straight up negate his Respira with a single strike if his SP is high enough
>Soi fon's Bankai could penetrate his respira due to her fire power Yeah but she didn't *negate* respira. Respira simply couldn't age it faster than the time it took to explode >Also Barragan in the Light novel blatantly stated that Zaraki could straight up negate his Respira Again, that wasn't negation I don't think you know what "negating hax" means
>Just tell me the instance where reiatsu negation is demonstrated, such that we can conclude that yammy would reiatsu negate Baraggan Aizen with Soi-fon Tokinada not being able to put characters stronger than him under copied KS (cfyow)
>Aizen with Soi-fon That was kyoka suigetsu >Tokinada not being able to put characters stronger than him under copied KS What was the reiatsu difference? If we know that, we can determine whether yammy can negate Baraggan's hax
‘Not trying to be a dick’ ‘U want to sound so damn confident when ur fucking wrong’ Pick one
This fan openly disagrees with Kubo and thinks he knows more than the creator of Bleach. *The worst and yet funniest part of this entire thing: he's not the only fan who engages in outright delusion.*
> This fan openly disagrees with Kubo and thinks he knows more than the creator of Bleach. So you're going to acknowledge feats presented by Kubo afterall? > he's not the only fan who engages in outright delusion. Because you're still here.
Atleast this guy respects the King Barragan unlike those Ulquiorra Stans that think Ulquiorra is the strongest Espada, even stronger than Szayleporro Granz lmao
>Atleast this guy respects the King Barragan unlike those Ulquiorra Stans that think Ulquiorra is the strongest Espada They're the same type of fan. They believe they know more than Kubo. I've provided overwhelming canon information and confirmation from multiple sources that Yammy is stronger than Ulquiorra, and yet I still get berated for telling the truth. Same fans who berate others for telling the truth that Barragan is weaker than Starrk and Yammy.
And the funniest shit is when we bring up Databooks and LN statements clearly stating yammy to be the strongest in raw power, they think Ulquiorra can win by being 1 mile away spamming Lanza lmfao, what a great way to win for the strongest Espada, running and spamming. But their dumbass forgot that Ichigo tanked Ulquiorra's attacks with his bare hands with 0 consequences
Let them cope Making up head-canon and delusion is the only thing saving them from feeling sad that Yammy is the strongest
You’re beyond stupid if you think Szayleporro is stronger than Ulquiorra. Especially when the feats are literally in the show. Do you really think Szayleporro Released form would do anything to a ulq whose shown to have great regenerative abilities? I advise you rewatch the show if you do.
I advise u to read the Light Novel before talking smack, Prime Szayleporro would violate Segunda Etapa in base form
So you’re stupid is basically what you’re telling me. Szayelaporro needs prep time and Ulq second form hasn’t been seen by anyone? Didn’t Renji and Ishida almost defeat him w/ prep time? I advise you learn to comprehend.
>Szayelaporro needs prep time and Ulq second form hasn’t been seen by anyone? No The other fan is talking about the original Granz hollow. Canonically, the original Granz hollow, and it's copy turned arrancar (Cien) are stronger than every Espada member ever. The lore is present in the first novel written by Narita, "Spirits Are Forever With You."
I advise you to not have the Brain power of a squirrel and remember that I told you to read the Light Novel because Szayleporro Granz was shown to be the strongest Espada in his prime. Fucking bum
Lmao I made u mad about a fictional anime 😭😭😭
Mad? Lmfao i enjoy roasting idiots and debating with people on the internet, if anything ur giving me free entertainment
Typing in caps (yelling) doesn’t seem enjoyable. You’re literally swearing and mad at 5am again have you brushed your teeth yet?
This boy stupid asf he’s talking about Szayelaporro way before the events of the manga before he split himself into two arrancar. He gave that power up and doesn’t have it anymore so he’s dick riding some obscure light novel like a fucking idiot.
Lmaaaao are you gonna forget how Segunda Etapa is the fucking second release?? And how it got manhandled by VL Ichigo who is weaker than Suppressed SAFWY Zaraki who is weaker than Prime Szayleporro?? Segunda Etapa
Canonically he’s stronger, but it also doesn’t make a lot of sense tbh, Kubo dropped the ball with the whole 0 espada thing.
Bull. Ulquiorra when referring to his rank DIRECTLY talked rank and strength. That was the entire point of his number reveal. And the same with Starrk's. Starrk wasnt apologizing to Shunsui because he has the most reiatsu, he was apologizing because Shunsui had just hoped out loud that he wasnt fighting the strongest but "Sorry, Im the primera". Yammy's entire zero reveal was about strength. They thought he was the weakest espada and were talking down to him but sorry kids, Yammy is the zero espada, the strongest. I have trouble believing Barragan loses to Yammy as well but its BS to say the numbers arent strength related. And Barragan is getting slapped against Starrk or Ulquiorra....
Reminder that he wouldn’t Yammy would just overwhelm with the sheer difference in reatsu
Baraggan massively outspeeds Yammy. He just needs to blitz him, and finish him with one touch
Waiting for you to prove it
Baraggan blitzed the fastest captain (barring Yamamoto) while in *base* Meanwhile Yammy was casually no-diffed by Kenpachi and Byakuya The speed difference couldn't be clearer
The fastest captain ? 😂😂😂
Yes Soi Fon
Since when was soi fon the fastest captain ?
Since the FKT arc
When was this confirmed?
1)Omaeda's statement 2)she had the most advanced shunpo Plus in the SS arc she was on par with Yoruichi
I agree, Barragan and Starrk would demolish Yammy... But they're still weaker than him.
I mean, given that superior reiatsu can just nullify abilities in some cases, whose to say that Yammy can’t just get mad enough to power up and not be effected?
The reiatsu difference isn't enough
Correct, and Ulqiorra is the strongest espada.
Well I as well make my take on this. Yes it has been stated multiple times that Yammy is the strongest Espada, in the manga, guide books and the novels themselves aside from Syzal. But here is the thing…feats trump statements And going by feats there is nothing stopping Barragan from blitzing Yammy and aging him to dust. Regardless of him being stronger then him or not.
Baraggan would clap stark too. No question
Plus if yammy isnt pissed enough hed die in seconds
A single cero from Yammy would vape Barragan throught Senescencia. If Soi-fon weak ass bankai can hurt him, Yammy one shot him.
You mixed up respira and senescensia I agree a cero would go through respira But it would never hit Baraggan due to his superior speed and senescensia
If I’m an author, and I say character A is stronger than character B and my fan base still continues to try to argue the opposite, I’d give up on them. God himself said yammy is stronger; by how much idk
Stronger doesnt mean he'd win in a fight He literally has no counter to Baraggan's speed, senescensia and respira
and Ulquiorra would beat all Espada