Anyone pretending this is okay is fucking nuts. It's not. It's going to limit this run because high fees slow usage and then the price will drop and everything will settle again before usage/price increases. Where the fuck is layer 2? Been hearing about it for over a year and it's no where.




Looping has hardly any liquidity and no low caps


And you know how that changes right?


By not making it an absolute hell to onboard new users? Layer 1 is complicated enough for 99% already.


The mobile app is dummy noob easy to use.


I don't know anything and I onboarded just fine. Are you anti Loopring for a reason?


You click "deposit" on the website its not rocket science.


Because people keep complaining about it not having liquidity and low caps. Just fucking get on Loopring and start complaining about low caps on their forum, and add some damn liquidity. Yes, gas is super high, but can everyone please stop complaining about it constantly. Sorry that your decentralized financial permissionless distributed world computer is congested because it's so fucking awesome that everyone wants to use it. It must be terrible for you to have to go through this. Please e-mail Vitalik and let him know you expect more of him in the coming year.


Use more adjectives I'm almost there 💦




The problem is whales don't care about gas fees, so they stick on Layer 1. There really isn't an incentive for someone moving millions at a time to go to layer 2.


Loopring did $30m yesterday and growing exponentially😉 Source: https://twitter.com/l2wars/status/1358773015388041219?s=21


you still need to pay like $100 gas fee to send the coins up to the layer 2


Do layer 2 like Loopring need Eth gas? Just checked they do.


They do, but transactions on layer 2 cost like $0.0002 in gas rather than $20 in gas.


Looping, isn't clear on how much it cost just to set up the wallet $155+, that's BS, and evan after paying for those fees to set it up,it still doesn't work as intended, I've read the reviews, it's just as bad as paying for gas fees, if not worse. It's great that their using layer 2, but at what cost? They have a long way to go, and need to be more clear on what they charge to setup the wallet. Edit My statement still stands true.




Update, ya, there is a $155 miner fee for creation of the wallet, evan when I chose to get the free wallet, because there were paid addresses for some damn reason, but ya, you were wrong, and my comment still stands. [Screenshot of setting up Loopring app](http://imgur.com/a/V3j6RRy)


Uniswap L2 in March


how reliable is this source? salivating


It's in testing right now (Unipig). It's technically done but they're letting people play with it to test out while they wait for the Optimistic team to officially release their rollups at the beginning of March. Once that happens all Uniswap needs to do is publish the contract.


Ok dumb question - Is it like other current L2 exchanges where you still have to pay huge fees to transfer ETH and all your tokens to it and then more fees to transfer them back to L1?


I believe so, but you can keep your funds there and since other popular projects are migrating to Optimistic too then you will be able to do a lot within L2.


It's May 2021 now so not very reliable.


Or just use 1inch. Same amount of liquidity as Uniswap and at a fraction of the gas fees.


The fees tend to be less, yes, but I don't think "fraction" is an accurate way to decribe.


7/8 is still a fraction.






Yes that may have been an exaggeration on my side, but it’s still cheaper than Uniswap.


At least you know it will always be technically accurate.


What are you talking about? The gas fees are higher on 1inch even if you use Chi tokens.






Anyone mining will be happy because more ETH to be earned! If the price of ETH drops then developers will be more inclined to release their smart contracts/dapps because it's cheaper to acquire. If the price of ETH goes up investors make some money and will want more. Vicious cycle this ETH...


I've seen a huge drop in revenue as people go to mine more ETH as prices go up and therefore difficulty is also skyrocketing. https://etherscan.io/chart/difficulty


Interesting, are you actually mining or just speculating revenue drop? I'm using flexpool and the blocks are getting 'fatter' I'm seeing an increase in my ETH earned, specifically today.


I'm mining. my AMD card is on Betterhash and my Nvidia is on Ethermine. I'm seeing the larger blocks, but I'm mining less overall. I was mining about $240 of ETH a month a week or two back, and now it's more like $180 (even at the higher eth price.)


That's BS. Mining profitability is the highest I've ever seen. It's so high that even old cards like gtx 1070 can make loads of money. I'm getting over $350 a month from my 3080 right now which is the highest I've seen it by far.


Profitability is higher due to better eth price. If you keep eth or transfer to btc it’s I’d say comparable. I do all use, hold, and mine, and yes gas is expensive, but also my advice is stop hating miners - more miners = cheaper gas. Miners didn’t invent those pricing mechanism or made eth that popular and hence congested. In my opinion, you’d want to have as much miners as possible before transition to PoS, to keep prices saner. And tbh, all miners getting into eth take risk too and the father of eth will call them all different names ;).


It's not a closed ecosystem. Apps will go to competitors.


Sure, you could even fork the chain and make your own competitor. But it's basically an unstoppable force at this point. How will you convince those earning ~20% APY on the many successful DeFi projects to move all that money onto a different chain? Maybe just wait until ETH2.0 is fully implemented, it will be so cheap to move our money off chain... Oh wait, at that point ETH will basically be an immovable object.


> But it's basically an unstoppable force at this point ...This isn't a good thing. Competition is good, and if it were a bigger threat, ETH2.0 would come faster.


Competition is good, and there are many options! As a holder of ETH, it sure feels like a good thing!


Usage isn't slowing, it's increasing which is why gas fees are so high. Investors and users of ethereum are profiting in this environment still.


$LRC! Check out [Ethereum’s webpage on L2](https://ethereum.org/en/developers/docs/layer-2-scaling/), Loopring is the first mentioned!!!


Loopring. It's up and running and you can send to L1 from it.


Does it cost anything to send to loopring?


Costs about half of one trade at uniswap for the deposit, but after your funds are there all transactions are virtually free.


Damn, that doesn't really help though. I just want to close my position on all the erc20 tokens.


I only have a little over a hundred USD in Eth. I went to transfer it off coinbase and they wanted like $15. Fuck that.


Remember that there are actual people working on and building this, and you're profiting from the adoption and work that they did. I agree we all want layer two, but check yourself before you start complaining unless you are a direct contributor to the project


They’re out there and ready for use , but no one is willing to adopt them.


I'm one of those potential recruits that would *love* to buy in, but if it costs me $150 just to exchange coins, I'm out. I'm keeping a close eye out though.


How are you trying to buy ETH exactly?


Oh, I had already bought a couple, but wanted to play with DeFi on Argent. I assumed I was reading the transaction fees wrong, so by the time I'd moved a couple things around to play I had already lost a fifth of my play money (my own fault, but Argent says something like "transaction fees: *up to* $x") . Now I have $400 left on there and it would cost $300 of it to move it off. I'm now definitely long on Ethereum, but it sucks that it's not feasible to use for a lot of people right now.


Hey, I'm with Argent. We know an experience like that is far from ideal, which is why our team is totally focused on layer 2. We're aiming to launch during the first half of this year. Thanks for trying us out though; I hope we can deliver an experience that will blow your socks off soon.


It sucks but It’s not a huge issue for big transactions in DeFi. Exchange fees on Coinbase are often a higher percentage. Since much of the recent growth in crypto is big institutions, I don’t think it will hinder the bull run.


> Any idea of where to find Level 2 exchangers to avoid these astronomical gas fees? https://exchange.loopring.io https://loopring.org


What’s a level 2 exchange?


Check out [Ethereum’s webpage on L2](https://ethereum.org/en/developers/docs/layer-2-scaling/) and read up about $LRC (Loopring) which is mentioned first before any other L2 solution


Just so you know: L2 stands for layer 2, not level 2.


ELI5: Basically it's a solution to batch up transactions to lower fees and increase scalibility. *Edit: Layer 2 exchange*


Injective (INJ) starts up in Q2, can't wait! Currently there is a testnet version running which is fun to try out beforehand.


It seems unfortunately that this still requires an ETH fee to deposit and withdraw between Layer 1 and Layer 2 correct? So unless you're day trading the difference between that and uniswap is negligible.


It costs less gas to deposit to Loopring, trade, and withdraw back to layer 1 compared to just a regular Uniswap trade. And it has less fees than Uniswap. Depending on the pair, the slippage might not be great though. Liquidity is improving everyday though.


I just tried this an hour ago and the gas fee for me was identical between the uniswap trade and the Loopring deposit.


Yeah but once you're on Loopring you can do infinite trades for free.


I guess my strategy of converting profits to stable coins is not cost effective. All my profits would go to gas fees lol


Hell I just wanna put some stable coins to work for me at 8% but I gotta come up with huge sums to make the fees not eat up all the upside for literally years.


BlockFi? I just sent USDC and fiat. Very small fees


Yearn and Harvest are DeFi projects that shield some of the fee pain.


I was new to crypto and made the horrible mistake of doing this with dai. I got charged $50 worth if eth for $100 dai. I'm still pissed when I think back at it.


Same, I was trying to get started lending Dai on my new Ledger and the $12 transaction fee basically eliminated any benefit to trying to lend at low levels


Let’s figure this out, does using storing your eth in cold wallets and then using uniswap L2 to exchange to a another exchange wallet to profit logical? What are we doing to secure our initial investments because i’m not trying to live a mt.gox


I think you gotta pay gas just to convert to L2 and pay gas if you gotta convert back to L1 to sell for fiat. I'm a noob so please correct if I'm wrong


Not if you're using Whiteswap they don't, token holders get reduced gas fees. One of the best L2 DEX's imo. A Uniswap fork but soon they'll battle Uni if Uniswap keeps up with its attitude of not innovating


Is Cardano an option now that the upgrades have started 🤔🧐


This is the time when someone needs to step in and say DYOR This is like asking people on /r/Bitcoin if Ethereum is a better option: most of them will tell you no because of bias. I say to do research yourself if you're curious if Cardano is a better investment. My advice: don't put all your eggs in one basket. Diversify your portfolio.


Ethereum promised super easy token creation, but that requires smart contracts, Cardano promises super easy token creation, let’s see what gets delivered, in the mean time looks like Cardano is following in ETH 2017 footsteps ? Maybe ?


>Cardano is following in ETH 2017 footsteps Looks more like it's following in ETH 2014 footsteps, seeing as the main value proposition of the network hasn't launched yet.


Why would you want super easy token creation? Are we looking at a future where the top tokens are not built out of contract systems, but personally issued by Joe down the street who can barely use a computer?


Yes, I too believe tech should be obscure and artificially complex so regular people cannot get access to it. I've been saying for years that reddit is too simple to use, it shouldn't even have a visual UI and use pure UNIX command lines instead, this would stop the normies from mixing with us smelly smart apes.


Smart contracts are akin to server code. The average person has no reason to run their own server. They just go to a company that is already providing the kind of service they need. There are enough smelly apes in the world to be able to abstract the difficult process of running a server down to "click button, log in". Reddit is actually a perfect example of that. World works fine this way.


> They just go to a company that is already providing the kind of service they need // World works fine this way. Somebody kinda missed the whole point of decentralisation and cryptocurrencies.


Name one useful cryptocurrency or defi app that a non-programmer would have been able to create and launch if they had a tool to be able to manually issue tokens to people. The point of cryptocurrency is to be a platform. Cryptocurrency isn't Reddit, it's AWS. There's no reason to make it easy for everyone and their mother to spin up an EC2 instance. It's best to focus on the end user experience, and that always involves specialized companies coming in and creating purpose-built products.




okay this is pretty fucking funny. Thanks


Yes we want easy token creation so Joe Shmoe can create tokens for small business or startups that can’t raise funds and sell ownership without VC’s or big banks etc.


But why write an edge case directly into the chain when you have a perfectly good turing complete platform to write some simplified SaaS on? That's what I'm really trying to wrap my head around.


Short answer: yes. But not here yet.


So, short answer is actually no.


Long answer might be a no as well


“Well yes, but actually no.”


If they don't figure this out soon, they will be losing to competition. First mover advantage is rarely an advantage in tech because new projects build on the flaws from the first mover. Unless they adapt and rebuild quickly...


There are literally L2 exchanges that are live RIGHT now.


I don't understand this thread


I just subscribed to this sub lmao imagine how confused I am right now


how much does it cost to open a loopring account? You need to pay eth fees for that. And you have to pay them again everytime you withdraw.


Still costs less gas than one Uniswap trade.


Why do folks keep suggesting Loopring and other L2 dapps? Its a decent bandaid at best until Eth 2 arrives, not every trading pair is available, and gas fees while better than Uni, doesn't make it a worthwhile solution atm.


A combination of L2 and ETH 2 is now the roadmap. The shards in ETH 2 won’t have state execution, just data for L2.


>Why do folks keep suggesting Loopring and other L2 dapps? Its a decent bandaid at best until Eth 2 arrives Loopring is one kind of rollup called zk rollup. They don't support general smart contract execution. Another kind of rollup is called optimistic rollups. These rollups do support general smart contract execution, which means all dapps can be seamlessly ported over to Layer 2. Optimistic rollups achieve around 500-1500 TPS with super low gas fees. Once sharding is implemented, these rollups benefit from the shard's data availability, which means they'll scale to 100k-1m TPS or even more. Loopring is basically a rudimentary bandaid right now, but Optimism is going to completely free us of the high gas fees. They soft launched some weeks ago with Synthetix and Uniswap is going to be on it by March. After march (public release), every single dapp can easily port their contracts over and introduce yield farming rewards to bootstrap users to Layer 2. Essentially, before the end of 2021, gas fees will be a thing of the past.


There's currently Loopring which uses L2 and in a month uniswap and others will support it as well.




Uses the network hey guys come use the network network costs go up ._.


Gotta just hodl til they go down. Is hard for the recent investors that have ETH but can't get tokens without paying $300 in gas fees.


> Gotta just hodl til they go down. At the current rate/price, no choice but to hodl till they go down (heh).


It's eeriely sounding like the old opec gas price gouging,...what killed off the american muscle cars v8's and lol v12's?... high gas prices.


I have 100 USDC in to the vesper.finance pool. Well I mean it's 80 now after paying the fees. It will most likely be stuck in there for a year or so, maybe there might be a brief moment where I can take it out after I got my vesper airdrop ....


Piggybacking this comment. If you use Matcha.xyz, you pay virtually zero dollars on fees its so small. You can also buy Uniswap and Sushi on Matcha with less slippage, get better prices, and pay less in fees, than both their native decentralized exchanges.


Have you tried sidechains? Matic Network has Uniswap-like exchange called Quickswap. [https://quickswap.exchange/#/swap](https://quickswap.exchange/#/swap) xDai Chain has Uniswap-like exchange called Honeyswap. [https://app.honeyswap.org/#/swap](https://app.honeyswap.org/#/swap) Transaction fees on both are fraction of a penny. Solution are there, we just need more people to start using them.


important question can I send ETH from Matic Network to Loopring?


That's something I want to know also. I think the answer is yes, of course you can. But you'll need to go through layer 1.. and pay 2 transaction.. I'd like to be wrong.


Uniswap should be supporting L2 in March


Yeah by the time Uniswap supports L2 in March, Loopring will be way ahead...[Ethereum’s webpage on L2](https://ethereum.org/en/developers/docs/layer-2-scaling/)


Great resource. Thanks 👍


Yes, Ethereum fees are too high. Yes, high fees will limit adoption. Yes, Ethereum will not scale in its current iteration. That does not mean that things will not change. Beacon Chain is live, and once Phase 1 begins (hopefully sometime in the next 6 months), Ethereum's throughput will increase 64x and will be able to support \~1000 TPS on L1. Additionally, many projects are working on L2 solutions that will also increase speed and efficiency. REMEMBER THAT YOU ARE EARLY! Trust, I want to get in there and play around just like everyone else, but you have to remember that you're still an alpha user, there will be roadblocks. Edit: ETH 2.0 is the final frontier, but there will be upgrades along the way


I started using loopring a couple days ago. after transferring funds to L2 (30$ gas), swap fees are fairly negligible after that. support issues seem to be addressed pretty quickly on their discord. I'm not sure why it isn't more popular, it blows the other swapps out of the water. liquidity issues will be solved with more users


its not popular because its yet another thing to learn. you need to open an account. all the security consequences. what happens if loopring fails? Is loopring secure? How does it work? Can you withdraw from loopring? How? Cost?


i use a ledger wallet, so loopring just moves funds into Layer 2. if loopring goes down, you can interact with the layer2 contracts to withdraw into layer1. at least that is my understanding


Have you tried using Loopring?


hardly any volume, which I really don't understand.


Every time I see these posts, just feel like I’m missing something. Not sure why anyone would be using Uniswap to deal with Eth when they have no L2 solutions implemented


Everyone is mentioning L2 and Eth2. But the simplest near-term solution would be for /u/vbuterin and the rest of the core team to increase the block gas limit. Right now it's 12.5 million. Doubling it to 25 million would relieve a tremendous amount of pressure and drastically reduce gas fees. Just as it did last summer the last time the block size was increased. The primary argument against this is that it makes it more expensive to operate a full node. But right now high gas fees are much more an existential threat to the project. The P2P mainnet is extremely healthy, and lack of nodes is definitely not a problem. I've experimented with continuously re-constructing 50 million or even 100 million gas pending blocks from the TxPool. A beefy AWS instance doesn't even break a sweat at these block sizes. Three quarters of synced full nodes run in the cloud. Provisioning a larger server would take nothing more than a touch of a button. The majority of full nodes are being run by well-funded companies that can afford to scale up. The era when the hobbyist could run a full node on his home PC is already well past us.




I rather look at zkRollups and Loopring…which is actually mentioned on the [Ethereum webpage](https://ethereum.org/en/developers/docs/layer-2-scaling/)


Zero exchange is shady AF with anonymous founders who release millions of coins at any time.


I heard this as well. I am staying away from it.


Buy on coinbase, transfer to your wallet, and hold If you're buying right now, you're early. Very early. You're an angel investor in a startup. Should only be doing this if you believe in the vision.


Most small Mcap tokens are not on Coinbase.


PoW will never work on the scale that is needed for adoption.


Really wish people were more informed that Bitcoin should not be used as a payment service of all things. It's literally just digital gold at this point.


Only way it works as a payment is if it’s a seriously generous amount of BTC per transaction. Small transactions get hammered.


Like buying a Tesla!


lol, I guess


Do the gas affect a normal coin exchange? Or is it in like special contracts? Sorry im super new xD


Every transaction on Ethereum costs gas. Then you pay a price for gas to determine how much ETH you pay for your fee. The amount of gas to transfer ETH is less than the amount of gas to transfer an ERC20. To conduct a swap on Uniswap costs even more gas. The more complex the transaction is, the more gas


Thanks for the info :D


If you use a centralized exchange to do a trade, there's no gas fee, just commissions. It's just an accounting entry, not a transaction on the Ethereum network.


Im on binance so I guess they only take their comission. Aah so it would be for p2p payments for example? Thanks :3


Yes, p2p payments require gas, as would executing any Ethereum contract, e.g. doing a trade on a decentralized (Ethereum-based) exchange like Uniswap.


Yes and moving your eth


The gas fees right now are one of the biggest issues and barriers for smaller (less than $5-10k) investors. L2 does help but if different platforms are using different L2 solutions then there will be another issue all together. Loopring and Matic are both great solutions but it is still a frustrating thing to be dealing with. Matic and Quickswap may be a solution for you.


you know why gas prices are high ? because people are willing to pay for it


Because they are new and don’t even know what those gas fees are. You would never buy any physical product with a tax fee % as high as eth’s current gas fees. Stop simping


2024? source?


As someone fairly new to cryptotrading, these posts scare me a little, is L2 really only coming in 2024? Because I can see that as a genuine concern for people losing interest in Ethereum by then, possibly through some other coin. Now please someone jump in and tell me that I'm paranoid :D


Some L2 implementations are live today (e.g., Loopring, Synthetics, Optimism, etc.). Others will be here within months.


Synthetix l2 only supports staking so far, can't wait for their other synths


The other smart contract platforms will all be using the same L2 technology that is already live on Ethereum today (or choosing to become centralized). It will be very hard for them to take the developers and users just to provide the same experience when under load.


L2 is live today and in active use. More companies are hopping on this year.


Loopring AMM is live with 20+ token pairs. If the token your looking for is there i highly suggest trying it out. Gas is completely free after you enter the rollup. Next time we have sub 100 gwei i highly encourage everyone to enter the rollup. No more excuses cheap gas fees await you.


Its so fucking stupid, I have a bit of ETH that i mined that is effectively stuck because its too expensive to move anywhere. And then some people try to justify this shit saying ETH 2.0 soon^(TM) when in reality phase 1.5 is AT LEAST 1 year away, although i would guess closer to two years.


Bro you're telling me. I spent $88 in gas just buy 1 DEFI5 token on Uniswap. Then another $18 gas fee to approve DEFI5 spend limit. And another $75 in gas just to stake it.


so use a CEX.... almost 100 comments and only one mention of just going to binance or whatever and buying/selling there.


BTC fees are reasonable to me as it’s an asset and moving it is not essential. I’m just laying low and letting the LP gains collect. Hopefully any game you are playing are on matic already !


BTC fees are not reasonable either don't lie to yourself.


i can imagine these people being that dog in the fire saying "this is fine." This is worst than transferring fiat.. this is not fine and we should stop normalizing high fees


Too dick high?


I've been watching xdai STAKE and Matic for this exact reason. Heard rumors that Uniswap is going to utilize one or the other in V3. Cheers to the winner!


Is wrapping your coins as Ethereum be an option for you? I transfered all my coins to tezos then bought wrapped Ethereum coins. I spent 0.01 XTZ to convert ALL my coins to Eth. It's actually insane how cheap it is. And over 15 Ethereum family coins will be on the wrapped Tezos network very very soon.


What does *wrapped* coin mean?






Honeyswap on xDai network (eth sidechain) Quickswap on Matic network (eth sidechain) both ethereum side chains have network fees in the pennies, liquidity is still pretty low but with Eth fees it has been growing.


I set up an email using hal.xyz that emails me when gas falls below a certain level. Has saved me hundreds


For a complete noob, what does this actually mean or where can I go to learn more about what you're talking about? Why would a person desire to swap tokens? I guess this applies to miners that want to move their eth to another platform to sell it or store it but I don't think that's the same thing that most of you are doing when you say swap tokens, is it?


The hardest part of ETH 2.0 has already launched. The researchers are saying the full merge and data sharding should happen in about a year. The final phase with shard execution may end up being irrelevant given everything happening with rollups.


If you use Matcha.xyz, you pay virtually zero dollars on fees its so small. You can also buy Uniswap and Sushi on Matcha with less slippage, get better prices, and pay less in fees, than both their native decentralized exchanges.


Checkout WanSwap! Only 0.0001$ gas for a tx. We build a Cross-chain AMM DEX which is modelled after Uniswap and SushiSwap but without the downsides of those projects being on Ethereum (high gas fees, clogged network, no crosschain possibilities). The DEX rewards liquidity providers with WASP, that's our governance token. We did a fair launch, there was no pre-mining, no team reserves and no investors involved. Currently we have EOS, BTC, ETH and WAN chains integrated for trading, this is made possible by Wanchain's cross-chain technology. The way this works is that every token on those chains can be wrapped on Wanchain, creating a WRC20 token, which can than be traded for other WRC20 tokens. When the tokens are wrapped they can be traded on our DEX. This is fast and the gas fees are really low. https://wanswap.finance/ Stats: https://info.wanswap.finance/home


You speak like Lumpy Space Princess


Go to: loopring.io




It’s funny because almost all of these complaints are because people are trying to use eth to buy shitcoins on dex’s. It’s cheap and easy to buy and move eth. But it on a cex and move it to your wallet... couple bucks and you’re done.


Use ZRX matcha exchsy. Super low gas fees


Doesn't Loopring do solve this problem?


Get Binance if you can


Buy unidex gas (undg). Gives you cash back on gas fees, up to 1/50th of your undg dollar holdings


Will creating more validators/nodes help reduce gas prices?


Nope. Add more miners just creates more competition for finding the same blocks. Block space is limited by the “gas limit” that a block can contain, and that’s set by the miners. The gas limit can be increased to allow for more transactions, but that can lead to other negatives that will make it harder for the network to run smoothly.


Check https://info.julswap.com it’s a dex on binance smart chain.


I had to move crypto from one exchange to another last night and for the first time I had to use LTC instead of ETH because of those fees.


Yeah 1st time I used uniswap today and couldn't believe the gas price was so high. I then needed to transfer a large amount of ETH from my ledger so set a low gas amount and i am still waiting for the transaction to be submitted 6 hours on


I absolutely can't get into aave or comp right now because of the gas fees, super unfortunate. Just gotta track down other things to stake like atom.


I am already in Compound, but can't get out anymore. Lol.


My favorite solution has been the one proposed by WhiteSwap, where the holders of WSE tokens are eligible to receive lower fees on the exchange. Boy am I glad I lp in time