Social media and FIFA video game has really hurt football. All we see is biased, low knowledge children, blabbing about shit they don’t know and don’t understand. Go back to Fortnite and shut up.
Overrated??? He's one of the best to ever play, current problem in my opinion is he's trying to play like he's still in his 20s. If he can re think his play a little and adapt to his age he could easily be back in the argument for one of the GOATS.
I am a Messi fan. Messi is the GOAT for me. I respect, but don’t particularly like, Ronaldo.
Stating that Ronaldo isn’t top 10 of all time is an absolutely laughable take that indicates your lack of ball knowledge. He is, at worst, a top 5 player of all time, and I struggle placing him outside the top 3.
Literally tears in my eyes at all the Ronaldo stans who can’t comprehend this 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 I was annoyed by the low level shitpost title but after seeing these comments I’m genuinely entertained hahaha
Is this a joke?
He may have tarnished his public image over the past few weeks, but he's still arguably up there as a potential GOAT with Messi original Ronaldo, Maradona and Pele. That's God tier football.
Nice bait bro.
When a player retires is when you recognize him more. So the moment Ronaldo retires , he is gonna he at least Top 2 players in history. Probably just behind Messi
Ridiculous take. I’m a Messi fan I believe Messi is the best I’ve ever see but let’s not just talk rubbish. Did the media help him score 100s and 100s of goals, was his incredible Ariel prowess made up? What about over head kicks, free-kicks, clutch goals in champions league knockout games.
You don’t justify a reply because you sound like a 5-year old who has only watched Ronaldo last 2 seasons and made this conclusion.
He may not be likeable character in fact I think he’s pretty much a egomaniac man child but this post is no better.
He's all that and a likeable character for millions though. Media narratives have always butchered him and a lot of football fans keep jumping on that bandwagon these days.
As a football fan I think its safe to say we don't know this man on a personal level to conclude things about his character but we can all unanimously agree that he's established his legacy for sure. However, your opinion is yours and I mean no harm.
Damn I'm also more of a Messi fan but I wouldn't go this low to say Ronaldo isn't a good player. I don't really like him but I also can't deny that he is one of the best players of all time
For me one of the most impressive Ronaldo accomplishments was having 19 consecutive Ballon D’or nominations. Meaning he’s a top 30 player for almost two decades. His longevity is what really set him apart from others. There’s no player who has more than 16 consecutive besides Messi and even I don’t think he’ll catch him in terms of nominations since he missed out this past season. To simply say he’s not top 10 is pretty harsh.
He can't dribble 😂 go watch his matches from 2007-09 and go watch his prime game and destroying Barcelona alone. You are just hating him because you know you are not even 1% of what he is, he is made from pure hardwork and dedication which you can't even have in your whole life
I think you didn't know what is football or you just watch football this year....man how can you say that Ronaldo has no skilled..LOL. i must say that you just see how he is played football like a goat.
>And you still really think hes not at the level of messi, pele, and maradona?
yes
i gre up with a family of die hard real madrid and ronaldo fans, i believed ronaldo was the goat until 2015-16 where i watched the copa america, then i sarted to believe that ronaldo = messi.
but then recently i changed my mind, messi is just so much clearly better than ronaldo.
you think i skipped most of ronaldo's games? it was the opposite actually i skipped messi prime years to watch ronaldo.
and about his manchester united days, if he had stayed at that level his entire career then yeah sure, those were his best days, sadly i wasn't old enough to see them.
but these were only the years at the start of his career, weren't they? his style changed a lot since then, he became an inside the box striker, a few touches and a finish, i respect that playstyle, but it just isn't enough imo.
Ok dude, u recently changed your mind means after he changed his game to become a poacher because he was getting old and didnt have the same speed and reflexes. U think because of that messi gets a pass as his body type and work ethic let him play a similar way to his prime.
Pele retired at 36 playing in the fucking mls and maradona retired at 37 playing in argentina for his last 4 years. Ronaldo at 37 was playing in the epl. So how they play when they are old matters for some but not others. Your logic contradicts itself.
And ronaldo has always been severely underrated for his link up play in attack.
of course, i don't judge ronaldo by the 2 years.
when ti comes to comparing messi and ronaldo, i only look at ronaldo when he was messi's age.
it has nothing to do with the current form, i just looked at their overall career.
all the numbers suggest that messi is one class ahead of ronaldo.
even leaving aside the subjective sense of joy when watching a player, numbers just say messi is a better footballer, full stop.
The numbers don't even suggest that mate + it really depends what you classify as "more enjoyable".
Dribbling in tight spaces, sure I'll give that to Messi, but pace or long-range shots I'll go with Ronaldo.
i said putting joy aside, since different people find different things more fun to watch.
numbers say that:
messi has a better coring ratio.
messi had better assist ratio, and naturally a much higher contribution ratio.
messi needs less shots per goal.
messi consistently ourperforms his xg by 5 or more, ronaldo over or under performs by 1.
messi has a higher pass accuracy, more through balls, more key passes, and any kind of pass you can think about.
messi has 6 golden shoes, ronaldo has 4, one was before he even started competing with messi.
not gonna mention the ballon do't because it's still subjective, and we can argue about it all day.
messi is just a much better dribbler.
messi scores more from outside the box, more freekicks, more pre assited goals, more goals with more than 3 touches, more goals beating multiple defenders.
ronaldo scored more headers and weak foot goals.
messi's heat map is more wide spread than ronaldo, he has multiple roles on the pitch.
i am not gonna even mention the dribbling, since that's a given, but even that aspect of messi is still underrated, messi's dribbling leads many shots and chances and goals, extremely efficient.
let's just compare their 9 years in spain:
same amount of goals and goals per match.
more assists for messi.
more golden boots and top scorer awards for messi.
la liga forward of the years award 7-1 for messi.
Saying that Messi has a better goal to games ratio completely ignores the fact that Ronaldo began his career as an outlying midfielder while Messi has always played as a forward. If we look at their goal ratios from 2007 onwards (which was when Ronaldo fully transitioned into a forward), he actually has a better goal/games ratio than Messi.
It's also true that Messi has scored more goals outside the box, however, most of those goals were scored from the edge of the box. If we look at goals, scored from 25 yards or further out, Ronaldo leads comfortably.
Ronaldo has scored more hattricks.
Ronaldo has more g/a in the Champions League knockout-stage and holds the record for most goals scored in Champions League finals.
Ronaldo has more consecutive seasons of scoring 10+ goals in individual Champions League campaigns.
Ronaldo holds the record for most goals, second-most goals and third-most goals scored in a single Champions League campaign.
Ronaldo has scored more international goals in non-friendly games, despite playing in a much worse squad (quality-wise) up until recently.
Ronaldo holds the record for four consecutive seasons of scoring 60+ goals, he also has six consecutive seasons of scoring 50+ goals to his name - speaking for his consistent output at the very highest level.
Ronaldo has scored more equalising goals, he's scored more winning goals. His g/a have contributed to more points won by his respective teams.
I also disagree with the notion that Messi's superiority at dribbling is a given. If we're talking about dribbling in tight spaces, then absolutely yes. Lionel Messi has a much lower centre of gravity than the Portuguese and therefore can move in small spaces where Ronaldo physically doesn't fit. However, comparing their dribbling in wider areas is honestly a toss-up for me.
Cristiano Ronaldo is also the more complete player imo. He has a better weak foot, has more pace - both on and off the ball - and is much better in the air.
Even though it's already said frequently, I want to reiterate what an insane achievement - both physically and mentally - it is to go to three different major European leagues and establish yourself as your team's best player.
I also think Ronaldo's player profile development from midfielder, to touchline winger, to lone striker is incredible and speaks to his versatility and adaptability.
With all that being said, I don't think you can make a legitimate argument that Messi and Ronaldo aren't of comparable quality and that you can really argue either way, who you prefer.
They're different players for sure, but their achievements for 15+ years definitely warrant a comparison.
ronaldo was never a midfielder, him and messi started in the same position in their starting years, the difference is that ronaldo was a called a midfielder because united played a 4-4-2, while messi was called a forward because barcelona played a 4-3-3.
it's true that ronaldo has more goals from 30 meters and over, but how many goals are they? i am willing to bet they are not a lot.
this is like comparing two freekick takers, one who scores a lot more than the others, but the other person scored a few more under the wall, does that make the other one a better freekick taker?
on average, messi scores from further away from the goal, since most of ronaldo's goals come from inside the box, and he hasn't scored many from outside the box since transforming into a striker.
speaking of STRIKERS, are we going to ingore that since 2015, messi has become a classic play maker 10, and ronaldo has become a classic stirker 9?
does that not matter with their goals scoring ratio? one of them is actually an attacking midfielder with multiple roles in the field, while the other has one job, score goals. yet they have a similar scoring ration, makes you think.
look at all the stats you listed, they are all goal scoring stats.
first of all, your numbers also ignore that ronaldo is 2 years older than messi, i a sure some of his number would stand eventually, but how many hattricks did ronaldo score in the last 2 years? 5, which would make him equal to messi at his age.
this part is also unfair to messi, but also to ronaldo, since this invites me to compare their current form, which is obviously not fair to ronaldo who is two years older.
i only compare 35yo messi number to 35 yo ronaldo numbers.
now i will leave aside the goal scoring records, since i said (or maybe didn't say) that it goes back and forth a bit.
but an interesting one is none friendly international goals.
this argument completely ignores the fact that, messi plays in south america, ronaldo plays in europe.
europe have both world cup qualifiers and euro qualifiers, south america only has one for the world cup.
in europe, both qualifiers are made from groups, which you play teams like lativa and luxermbourg estonia etc. ranked below 100 or 150 sometimes.
and the other stronger teams are ranked 30-80.
the weakest south american team is rated in the 70s, which is bolivia, of the 10 teams in the south american qualifiers, 5 are constantly ranked in the top 20.
messi scores, on average, on teams ranked about 30, on average, ronaldo scores on teams ranked 80.
to sum it up, europe have more official games, which are also easier games.
may i remind you with the only time messi played a team of that quality? he scored 5 goals.
now to the dribbling, this has nothing to do with ronaldo himself, but if you can't dribble in tight areas, then you can't dribble, that's what the professional football is about. in wide areas, just play a long ball and run for it.
messi has more touches per second while dribbling. go to r/TopRightMessi and see all the crazy messi dribbling stats.
fun fact, in his entire life, ronaldo has never dribbled more than 3 players and scored.
when ronaldo comes up infront of a team with a good defense, he stand in the box and relies on his teammates to give him good passes.
when messi comes up againest a big team, he drops deep and gives his team scoring chances.
now on ronaldo being more complete, i assume you means a more complete goal scorer, you say that because you uses different parts of his body.
but is that everything to goal scoring? the part of the body you use to put the ball in? what about the technique?
messi has a much wider variety of techniques to use, lob chip dribble shoot, he can mix them up, he can recieve the ball in a terrible position, then dribble 2 players and now he got 5 different ways he can score.
now with ronaldo, he can't really mix up his weapons, you can't mix up weak foot with headers, long shots with tap ins, in every position, ronaldo only has a single option to score: get the ball into the net however it comes your way. whether it's 3 or 30 meters away, right or left, head or dick, he'll go for the goal. which is also wy he takes way more shots per goal.
the only argument anyone got for ronaldo is the goals, which if messi is not better at right now, for the fact that he's 2 and half years younger, messi still got multiple other weapons to his arsenal, that ronaldo just can't match.
there is more to football than goals, messi scores as much as ronaldo, creates a lot of chances, gives through balls, controls the game.
he can fill multiple roles, if yu need a playermaker, he'll do it. if you need a dribbler, he'll do it, if you need a goal scorer, he'll do it.
when you put him in a shit team where he needs to do everything, he'll also gladly do it.
the only thing messi can't do is be a goal keepr.
He was an outlying midfielder, meaning he starts deep and drives forward. That's a fact, not a matter of interpretation.
The only reason why I mentioned Ronaldo's 25+ yard goals is because I said I prefer his long-range shots. Here's the reason why.
Also, and maybe most importantly, Messi fans need to stop with the "he's a no.10" narrative. It's bs and you know that. He's a forward, who tends to drop back to exploit space between the lines - he does it excellently, no questions asked, but he is not a midfielder. He never was.
Alright, let's include international friendlies as well. Ronaldo still has a better goalscoring ratio. And let's not forget how much worse that Portugal side was for many years.
With regards to dribbling, maybe we'll just have to agree to disagree. Ronaldo can dribble in tight spaces, he just doesn't do it as well as Messi. Also, dribbling in wider areas can be incredibly useful, eg during a counter-attack, when the defence is more drawn out, in 1v1 situations and I could go on.
And yes, Ronaldo is the more complete attacker of the two. He has more pace, he's better in the air, has a better weak foot, he's scored a variety of incredibly athletic goals from overhead kicks, to volleys, to his trademark "rockets" from 30 yards out, etc.
Messi is definitely someone, who's incredibly versatile on the pitch. More so than Cristiano, I admit that. But saying that he fills ever position is laughable. He has one of the worst records of Europe's top forwards of defensive pressing and tracking back, often inviting the opposition to overload the space behind him during counter-attacking situations.
The equaliser by Saudi-Arabia in their 2022 WC match against Argentina is a primary example of that. Messi got dispossessed, the Saudis press a counter, Messi doesn't track back and the attack results in a goal. So pls calm it on that narrative.
Also, I'm pretty sure I mentioned that Ronaldo has scored more winning and more equalising goals, so we literally have it black on white how crucial Ronaldo is to securing his team's points.
It's obvious, we prefer two different players. Let's just admit, they're the two greatest players of all time and call it a day.
i feel like we've reached a part of the conversation where we'd just repeat the same things over and over again.
i have made my argument, which i believe is more than eough to prove messi is a class above ronaldo.
i respect your opinion if you think other wise, but i am also not obligated to believe ronaldo is top 5.
thanks for your time. great conversation 👍
I'm sorry but you not putting Ronaldo in Top 5 just shows how detached from modern day football you really are. Some Messi fans are so blinded by wanting to downplay all of Ronaldo's skills and undoubted achievements in the sport in order to establish their favourite player as "a class above" is pitiable. But yeah, you're not obligated to place Ronaldo in your top 5 just like the rest of us are not obligated to take that incredibly outlandish opinion seriously. Lol.
if you feel like the numbers i mentioned were unfair to ronaldo feel free to mention yours. i changed my mind once and can change it again with enough evidence.
Nobody hates PR7 more than me, and I was nodding along until you said that he's rigged games so he can score. That one's not true, you took it too far there.
It's also not true that he can't shoot. That's the only thing he can actually do for sure. But even that is overrated.
And it was Perez who paid millions through marketing for his Balons d'Or, not him.
But everything else you wrote is true. PR7.
I hope when Messi carries Argentina to victory tomorrow we can finally settle on who the real GOAT is. For now I’ll just continue showing more support with my ARG fans token of Argentina Football Association. You can check it out on MEXC
Ronaldo made his record at clubs where the whole team were told to supply him with the ball. When this stopped he couldn't reach the same levels.
His record is flattered by having the most penalties of any player in the history of football.
He's the only player I've seen that's been visibly upset when his team scores and it's not him putting the ball in the net - that alone is why I can't abide the man...that and his love of piers Morgan.
Ronaldo was actually fantastic, but I get the point about perhaps being overrated. I think you could add many players to have played for Man Utd in recent years to the list of overrated players. Like Ander Herrera, Adnan Janujaz, Lingard, Rashford - their fans hype them up and then this is repeated throughout their online echo chambers so much that it almost becomes like brainwashing or propaganda.
what is wrong with you r/football even though i am a ronaldo and messi fan but im not biased and search up ronaldo best skills and goals and then you'll change your mind ;/
You definitely started watching football this season bc ain't no damn way 😭😭
heretohelp127 yeh thats what i thought too;/
Social media and FIFA video game has really hurt football. All we see is biased, low knowledge children, blabbing about shit they don’t know and don’t understand. Go back to Fortnite and shut up.
All day long.
bro your calling me biased when I'm telling the truth, your the biased one butthurt Ronaldo fanboy
You’re*
Overrated??? He's one of the best to ever play, current problem in my opinion is he's trying to play like he's still in his 20s. If he can re think his play a little and adapt to his age he could easily be back in the argument for one of the GOATS.
r/football tries to spot an obvious troll challenge (impossible)
I am a Messi fan. Messi is the GOAT for me. I respect, but don’t particularly like, Ronaldo. Stating that Ronaldo isn’t top 10 of all time is an absolutely laughable take that indicates your lack of ball knowledge. He is, at worst, a top 5 player of all time, and I struggle placing him outside the top 3.
The way he scores 90% tapins and can neither pass or dribble properly .He just knows camping in penalty area and scoring.
Go watch golf Ronaldo is good at dribbling
Hahahaha, no he’s not, you headass
He is tho go watch golf
Teenagers on the internet. Bless
That's the most obvious trolling I've seen
That rarest of things: An objectively incorrect opinion.
Are u banned on r/soccercirclejerk or did you post here by mistake?
Delete
Is no one on this sub capable of any level of objectivity? I really dislike Ronaldo's personality and attitude but this is absurd.
Let me guess, you just started watching football?
He cannot shoot 😂😂😂😂 Nice joke Are you a comedian ?
he can't score further than 6 yards out
Bro how old are you ? Are you baby ? Didn't you see the Spurs game or the game against Porto ??? 😂😂😂😂
he paid the goalkeepers to let them in
Haha wow you are funny 😐
Wtf is this sub
Zoomer
Is that the opposite of a boomer? Alive 10 years rather than dead in 10
Bait bait bait
r/soccercirclejerk bait to be exact.
Literally tears in my eyes at all the Ronaldo stans who can’t comprehend this 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 I was annoyed by the low level shitpost title but after seeing these comments I’m genuinely entertained hahaha
Is this a joke? He may have tarnished his public image over the past few weeks, but he's still arguably up there as a potential GOAT with Messi original Ronaldo, Maradona and Pele. That's God tier football.
Lol
Worst player you have ever seen...plays for a major team for over a decade.. yeah sounds bad
Nice bait bro. When a player retires is when you recognize him more. So the moment Ronaldo retires , he is gonna he at least Top 2 players in history. Probably just behind Messi
Ridiculous take. I’m a Messi fan I believe Messi is the best I’ve ever see but let’s not just talk rubbish. Did the media help him score 100s and 100s of goals, was his incredible Ariel prowess made up? What about over head kicks, free-kicks, clutch goals in champions league knockout games. You don’t justify a reply because you sound like a 5-year old who has only watched Ronaldo last 2 seasons and made this conclusion. He may not be likeable character in fact I think he’s pretty much a egomaniac man child but this post is no better.
bro he paid the goalies to let him Score
Most Penaldo goals are invalid under the Farmer's league clause
He's all that and a likeable character for millions though. Media narratives have always butchered him and a lot of football fans keep jumping on that bandwagon these days. As a football fan I think its safe to say we don't know this man on a personal level to conclude things about his character but we can all unanimously agree that he's established his legacy for sure. However, your opinion is yours and I mean no harm.
Bruh. U born yesterday? Or the day before yesterday?
The day before before yesterday.
Ok
Damn I'm also more of a Messi fan but I wouldn't go this low to say Ronaldo isn't a good player. I don't really like him but I also can't deny that he is one of the best players of all time
bro stop being a fanboy, Ronaldo has never been good. Stop all of this best of all time nonsense
Did you even read my comment? As a person, I think Ronaldo is a piece of sh*t. But I can't deny that he is good at the game
he's not good at anything, stop pretending to be a Messi fan and admit your a penaldo fan
No lol
He's good when he's younger. The kinda player that can turn around the game.
bro stop being a fanboy, he wasn't "good" the Media just convinced you he was good
His days are over. He barely does anything during this WC and United in 2022/2023.
even in his prime he was dogshit
Your ball knowledge reeks 💀
Few players have ever reached 800 games let alone goals
easy to reach 800 goals when you rig games to score
I would say rigging it so keepers allow you to score 800 goals without ever being caught is a remarkable achievement in itself
Defiantly harder than scoring 800 goals there's no way someone wouldn't tell.
Average Messi fan
This one is so far from reality that it wouldn't surprise me if it was a super-Ronaldo-fan just trying to discredit the opposition.
Haha maybe. But I think he's just unwell.
average Ronaldo fanboy
He is one of the greatest brazilian players of all time .. just coz he is fat now doesnt mean he wasnt a good player
lmao he was talking about the portuguese one
Where does it say so
For me one of the most impressive Ronaldo accomplishments was having 19 consecutive Ballon D’or nominations. Meaning he’s a top 30 player for almost two decades. His longevity is what really set him apart from others. There’s no player who has more than 16 consecutive besides Messi and even I don’t think he’ll catch him in terms of nominations since he missed out this past season. To simply say he’s not top 10 is pretty harsh.
he paid french football for the nominations, anyone with a brain knows he should be nowhere near the ballon D'or
You started watching football this year?
Ronaldo’s goal tally proves you wrong.
Statpadding against Osasuna on the wealthiest team in the world mate
He can't dribble 😂 go watch his matches from 2007-09 and go watch his prime game and destroying Barcelona alone. You are just hating him because you know you are not even 1% of what he is, he is made from pure hardwork and dedication which you can't even have in your whole life
What idiot wrote this? Can’t be the OP. Nobody this stupid could actually type words.
And who are you to decide his standards? Nobody ! He only gets to decide his standards not morons like you.
I think you didn't know what is football or you just watch football this year....man how can you say that Ronaldo has no skilled..LOL. i must say that you just see how he is played football like a goat.
op doesnt watch football. Or ronaldo must have snubbed him in the past.
Mental illness
Bro, you’re describing MBappe not CR7.
mbappe can shoot from further than 2 yards out
OK, you officially have no idea what you're talking about. Stick to curling fella.
Nah this has to be bait
not denying he's a bit overrated, he's not at the level of messi, maradona, pele etc. but he's still at the very least top 15 all time
Bruh when did u start watching football, last month?
12 years
So no united days? And you still really think hes not at the level of messi, pele, and maradona? U prolly have skipped most of his games tbf.
>And you still really think hes not at the level of messi, pele, and maradona? yes i gre up with a family of die hard real madrid and ronaldo fans, i believed ronaldo was the goat until 2015-16 where i watched the copa america, then i sarted to believe that ronaldo = messi. but then recently i changed my mind, messi is just so much clearly better than ronaldo. you think i skipped most of ronaldo's games? it was the opposite actually i skipped messi prime years to watch ronaldo. and about his manchester united days, if he had stayed at that level his entire career then yeah sure, those were his best days, sadly i wasn't old enough to see them. but these were only the years at the start of his career, weren't they? his style changed a lot since then, he became an inside the box striker, a few touches and a finish, i respect that playstyle, but it just isn't enough imo.
Ok dude, u recently changed your mind means after he changed his game to become a poacher because he was getting old and didnt have the same speed and reflexes. U think because of that messi gets a pass as his body type and work ethic let him play a similar way to his prime. Pele retired at 36 playing in the fucking mls and maradona retired at 37 playing in argentina for his last 4 years. Ronaldo at 37 was playing in the epl. So how they play when they are old matters for some but not others. Your logic contradicts itself. And ronaldo has always been severely underrated for his link up play in attack.
of course, i don't judge ronaldo by the 2 years. when ti comes to comparing messi and ronaldo, i only look at ronaldo when he was messi's age. it has nothing to do with the current form, i just looked at their overall career.
He's on the same level as Messi at least, watch golf if you disagree
all the numbers suggest that messi is one class ahead of ronaldo. even leaving aside the subjective sense of joy when watching a player, numbers just say messi is a better footballer, full stop.
The numbers don't even suggest that mate + it really depends what you classify as "more enjoyable". Dribbling in tight spaces, sure I'll give that to Messi, but pace or long-range shots I'll go with Ronaldo.
i said putting joy aside, since different people find different things more fun to watch. numbers say that: messi has a better coring ratio. messi had better assist ratio, and naturally a much higher contribution ratio. messi needs less shots per goal. messi consistently ourperforms his xg by 5 or more, ronaldo over or under performs by 1. messi has a higher pass accuracy, more through balls, more key passes, and any kind of pass you can think about. messi has 6 golden shoes, ronaldo has 4, one was before he even started competing with messi. not gonna mention the ballon do't because it's still subjective, and we can argue about it all day. messi is just a much better dribbler. messi scores more from outside the box, more freekicks, more pre assited goals, more goals with more than 3 touches, more goals beating multiple defenders. ronaldo scored more headers and weak foot goals. messi's heat map is more wide spread than ronaldo, he has multiple roles on the pitch. i am not gonna even mention the dribbling, since that's a given, but even that aspect of messi is still underrated, messi's dribbling leads many shots and chances and goals, extremely efficient. let's just compare their 9 years in spain: same amount of goals and goals per match. more assists for messi. more golden boots and top scorer awards for messi. la liga forward of the years award 7-1 for messi.
Saying that Messi has a better goal to games ratio completely ignores the fact that Ronaldo began his career as an outlying midfielder while Messi has always played as a forward. If we look at their goal ratios from 2007 onwards (which was when Ronaldo fully transitioned into a forward), he actually has a better goal/games ratio than Messi. It's also true that Messi has scored more goals outside the box, however, most of those goals were scored from the edge of the box. If we look at goals, scored from 25 yards or further out, Ronaldo leads comfortably. Ronaldo has scored more hattricks. Ronaldo has more g/a in the Champions League knockout-stage and holds the record for most goals scored in Champions League finals. Ronaldo has more consecutive seasons of scoring 10+ goals in individual Champions League campaigns. Ronaldo holds the record for most goals, second-most goals and third-most goals scored in a single Champions League campaign. Ronaldo has scored more international goals in non-friendly games, despite playing in a much worse squad (quality-wise) up until recently. Ronaldo holds the record for four consecutive seasons of scoring 60+ goals, he also has six consecutive seasons of scoring 50+ goals to his name - speaking for his consistent output at the very highest level. Ronaldo has scored more equalising goals, he's scored more winning goals. His g/a have contributed to more points won by his respective teams. I also disagree with the notion that Messi's superiority at dribbling is a given. If we're talking about dribbling in tight spaces, then absolutely yes. Lionel Messi has a much lower centre of gravity than the Portuguese and therefore can move in small spaces where Ronaldo physically doesn't fit. However, comparing their dribbling in wider areas is honestly a toss-up for me. Cristiano Ronaldo is also the more complete player imo. He has a better weak foot, has more pace - both on and off the ball - and is much better in the air. Even though it's already said frequently, I want to reiterate what an insane achievement - both physically and mentally - it is to go to three different major European leagues and establish yourself as your team's best player. I also think Ronaldo's player profile development from midfielder, to touchline winger, to lone striker is incredible and speaks to his versatility and adaptability. With all that being said, I don't think you can make a legitimate argument that Messi and Ronaldo aren't of comparable quality and that you can really argue either way, who you prefer. They're different players for sure, but their achievements for 15+ years definitely warrant a comparison.
ronaldo was never a midfielder, him and messi started in the same position in their starting years, the difference is that ronaldo was a called a midfielder because united played a 4-4-2, while messi was called a forward because barcelona played a 4-3-3. it's true that ronaldo has more goals from 30 meters and over, but how many goals are they? i am willing to bet they are not a lot. this is like comparing two freekick takers, one who scores a lot more than the others, but the other person scored a few more under the wall, does that make the other one a better freekick taker? on average, messi scores from further away from the goal, since most of ronaldo's goals come from inside the box, and he hasn't scored many from outside the box since transforming into a striker. speaking of STRIKERS, are we going to ingore that since 2015, messi has become a classic play maker 10, and ronaldo has become a classic stirker 9? does that not matter with their goals scoring ratio? one of them is actually an attacking midfielder with multiple roles in the field, while the other has one job, score goals. yet they have a similar scoring ration, makes you think. look at all the stats you listed, they are all goal scoring stats. first of all, your numbers also ignore that ronaldo is 2 years older than messi, i a sure some of his number would stand eventually, but how many hattricks did ronaldo score in the last 2 years? 5, which would make him equal to messi at his age. this part is also unfair to messi, but also to ronaldo, since this invites me to compare their current form, which is obviously not fair to ronaldo who is two years older. i only compare 35yo messi number to 35 yo ronaldo numbers. now i will leave aside the goal scoring records, since i said (or maybe didn't say) that it goes back and forth a bit. but an interesting one is none friendly international goals. this argument completely ignores the fact that, messi plays in south america, ronaldo plays in europe. europe have both world cup qualifiers and euro qualifiers, south america only has one for the world cup. in europe, both qualifiers are made from groups, which you play teams like lativa and luxermbourg estonia etc. ranked below 100 or 150 sometimes. and the other stronger teams are ranked 30-80. the weakest south american team is rated in the 70s, which is bolivia, of the 10 teams in the south american qualifiers, 5 are constantly ranked in the top 20. messi scores, on average, on teams ranked about 30, on average, ronaldo scores on teams ranked 80. to sum it up, europe have more official games, which are also easier games. may i remind you with the only time messi played a team of that quality? he scored 5 goals. now to the dribbling, this has nothing to do with ronaldo himself, but if you can't dribble in tight areas, then you can't dribble, that's what the professional football is about. in wide areas, just play a long ball and run for it. messi has more touches per second while dribbling. go to r/TopRightMessi and see all the crazy messi dribbling stats. fun fact, in his entire life, ronaldo has never dribbled more than 3 players and scored. when ronaldo comes up infront of a team with a good defense, he stand in the box and relies on his teammates to give him good passes. when messi comes up againest a big team, he drops deep and gives his team scoring chances. now on ronaldo being more complete, i assume you means a more complete goal scorer, you say that because you uses different parts of his body. but is that everything to goal scoring? the part of the body you use to put the ball in? what about the technique? messi has a much wider variety of techniques to use, lob chip dribble shoot, he can mix them up, he can recieve the ball in a terrible position, then dribble 2 players and now he got 5 different ways he can score. now with ronaldo, he can't really mix up his weapons, you can't mix up weak foot with headers, long shots with tap ins, in every position, ronaldo only has a single option to score: get the ball into the net however it comes your way. whether it's 3 or 30 meters away, right or left, head or dick, he'll go for the goal. which is also wy he takes way more shots per goal. the only argument anyone got for ronaldo is the goals, which if messi is not better at right now, for the fact that he's 2 and half years younger, messi still got multiple other weapons to his arsenal, that ronaldo just can't match. there is more to football than goals, messi scores as much as ronaldo, creates a lot of chances, gives through balls, controls the game. he can fill multiple roles, if yu need a playermaker, he'll do it. if you need a dribbler, he'll do it, if you need a goal scorer, he'll do it. when you put him in a shit team where he needs to do everything, he'll also gladly do it. the only thing messi can't do is be a goal keepr.
He was an outlying midfielder, meaning he starts deep and drives forward. That's a fact, not a matter of interpretation. The only reason why I mentioned Ronaldo's 25+ yard goals is because I said I prefer his long-range shots. Here's the reason why. Also, and maybe most importantly, Messi fans need to stop with the "he's a no.10" narrative. It's bs and you know that. He's a forward, who tends to drop back to exploit space between the lines - he does it excellently, no questions asked, but he is not a midfielder. He never was. Alright, let's include international friendlies as well. Ronaldo still has a better goalscoring ratio. And let's not forget how much worse that Portugal side was for many years. With regards to dribbling, maybe we'll just have to agree to disagree. Ronaldo can dribble in tight spaces, he just doesn't do it as well as Messi. Also, dribbling in wider areas can be incredibly useful, eg during a counter-attack, when the defence is more drawn out, in 1v1 situations and I could go on. And yes, Ronaldo is the more complete attacker of the two. He has more pace, he's better in the air, has a better weak foot, he's scored a variety of incredibly athletic goals from overhead kicks, to volleys, to his trademark "rockets" from 30 yards out, etc. Messi is definitely someone, who's incredibly versatile on the pitch. More so than Cristiano, I admit that. But saying that he fills ever position is laughable. He has one of the worst records of Europe's top forwards of defensive pressing and tracking back, often inviting the opposition to overload the space behind him during counter-attacking situations. The equaliser by Saudi-Arabia in their 2022 WC match against Argentina is a primary example of that. Messi got dispossessed, the Saudis press a counter, Messi doesn't track back and the attack results in a goal. So pls calm it on that narrative. Also, I'm pretty sure I mentioned that Ronaldo has scored more winning and more equalising goals, so we literally have it black on white how crucial Ronaldo is to securing his team's points. It's obvious, we prefer two different players. Let's just admit, they're the two greatest players of all time and call it a day.
i feel like we've reached a part of the conversation where we'd just repeat the same things over and over again. i have made my argument, which i believe is more than eough to prove messi is a class above ronaldo. i respect your opinion if you think other wise, but i am also not obligated to believe ronaldo is top 5. thanks for your time. great conversation 👍
I'm sorry but you not putting Ronaldo in Top 5 just shows how detached from modern day football you really are. Some Messi fans are so blinded by wanting to downplay all of Ronaldo's skills and undoubted achievements in the sport in order to establish their favourite player as "a class above" is pitiable. But yeah, you're not obligated to place Ronaldo in your top 5 just like the rest of us are not obligated to take that incredibly outlandish opinion seriously. Lol.
if you feel like the numbers i mentioned were unfair to ronaldo feel free to mention yours. i changed my mind once and can change it again with enough evidence.
Nobody hates PR7 more than me, and I was nodding along until you said that he's rigged games so he can score. That one's not true, you took it too far there. It's also not true that he can't shoot. That's the only thing he can actually do for sure. But even that is overrated. And it was Perez who paid millions through marketing for his Balons d'Or, not him. But everything else you wrote is true. PR7.
I mean you’re just sliiiightly less stupid than OP.
lmaoo spot on
I hope when Messi carries Argentina to victory tomorrow we can finally settle on who the real GOAT is. For now I’ll just continue showing more support with my ARG fans token of Argentina Football Association. You can check it out on MEXC
Does it really matter? Just be glad we've had two genuine contenders for GOAT at the same time. (Still Ronnie for me though 😂)
Clear to everyone that watches football and doesn't go on stats that Messi has been clear since 2009
Ronaldo made his record at clubs where the whole team were told to supply him with the ball. When this stopped he couldn't reach the same levels. His record is flattered by having the most penalties of any player in the history of football. He's the only player I've seen that's been visibly upset when his team scores and it's not him putting the ball in the net - that alone is why I can't abide the man...that and his love of piers Morgan.
Bro you have like zero knowledge of football
No one wants to sign him
Stupid troll ass bitch
Ronny's burner account
Ronaldo was actually fantastic, but I get the point about perhaps being overrated. I think you could add many players to have played for Man Utd in recent years to the list of overrated players. Like Ander Herrera, Adnan Janujaz, Lingard, Rashford - their fans hype them up and then this is repeated throughout their online echo chambers so much that it almost becomes like brainwashing or propaganda.
You are very brave to type this...
Nice bait
I hate to break it to you but you were watching another sport
yeh definitely
what is wrong with you r/football even though i am a ronaldo and messi fan but im not biased and search up ronaldo best skills and goals and then you'll change your mind ;/