Can't understand how this isn't used on the pro tour


You have to change your grip during the toss so as to disguise it, making it tricky to do well. But when it works, it's definitely awesome.


It's also potentially harmful to your wrist.


That's *every* serve.


how so? all the tutorials I've seen say you use essentially the same service motion but with a different grip


Do you seriously think this is the issue??


It is not necessary to change your grip during the toss to disguise it. With a pan grip, you can still hit a slice, the reverse, or just drill it flat as a pancake. It does take the kick serve out of the equation though, and also the really exaggerated slice. I made my living off a left-handed kick serve. Baffled everyone. Natural tendency for returners is to either move up or move back. For those who moved up on me, I want to the pan and hit it flat right at them until they backed off. In the interim while I was pan, they would NEVER see the reverse coming after I had hit flat pan a few times.


> It is not necessary to change your grip during the toss to disguise it. Not at most levels. But at a high level, reading a serve before it's hit is *huge*. The pancake grip is pretty noticeable from afar


Which is precisely why I pointed out THE **OTHER** SERVES YOU CAN HIT FROM PAN. The *whole point* of what I wrote was that **EVEN IF** your opponent notices your pan grip, he STILL doesn't know the *reverse* is coming because of the OTHER serves that can be hit with it.


Its about as effective as a good underarm serve. Good for catching the opponent off guard but if youre ready for it, its hard to disguise and its basically just a slower version of a lefty serve


Was only 95mph, most guys will react and rip it back. (Still, getting 95 like that, damn)


95 mph swinging serve to the backhand on the ad side is a legit serve. Dudes are not just gonna rip it back. Guys like Nishioka earn a living on that serve. If you’re not expecting that serve coming from a righty player? Doubly hard to rip back.


Agreed. Simon Freund, who plays on a professional level, pulls one of these off almost every match and it is very effective. Incredible YouTube channel if you have some time to kill https://www.youtube.com/@Simon.Freund


Wah at first glance I read that name as Sigmund Freud.


Sigmund Freud's corpse being puppeted by all the residual cocaine.


absurd comment, gotta be one of the most insane exaggerations in differences between the mens and womens game that ive ever seen. this is an ace against most men, too. look where the ball lands. christ.


Nah the ATP number 200 is easily jumping into the stands to slap an on-the-stretch backhand winner down the line off of this you don’t understand


>this is an ace against most men Definitely, just look where the ball leaves the court. It's practically at the service line. I'm sure some players are capable of returning this but ripping it back, there's just no way.


Imagine expecting the typical right hand spin which when going wide on the ad side usually curves back to you a bit. Instead now all of a sudden spins out wide like from a lefty slice. The unexpected change in spin is more than enough to throw the returner off even at a slower speed.


I think the key here is whether the receiver can pick up the cues and anticipate some shenigans. I wouldn't put it past Djokovic for example to be able to read even the tiniest changes that are needed for this type of serve.


Depends how often it’s used. 1 time a year? I doubt Novak or anyone reads it because you just never see it. It’s also pretty hard to execute well which is why it’s not used with any regularity.


He should do it in a match, that was sick


[He has before, actually.](https://twitter.com/TennisTV/status/1356916591133220871?s=20)


Oo, he’s executed this most recent one a lot better than in that clip. Maybe he’s been improving it


Saw some of the Tiebreak Tens last night. I don't think I've ever seen either Taylor or Aryna smile so much. Good fun.


It *started* at 10:30pm here on the east coast. :( At first I didn't even realize it was live because there was no other tennis on all day and then all of the sudden when it's time for bed there is what looked like a really good and fun premise.


Genuinely question, what is a reverse Ace?


To add on to what /u/Flozzer905 said -- a reverse serve is when you hit a serve that curves in the opposite direction that a slice serve would (if you're right-handed, this means the serve curves to the left of the returner) Tutorial: https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=LoYnvXzRdEw


is it not a kick serve?


no, kick doesn't really add much spin to the left/right, it's basically topspin. And the grip is totally different


It curves the other way BEFORE it bounces.


Great tutorial, I never thought of a pan grip, very smart


It's a reverse serve that turned out to be an ace. No such thing as a reverse ace.


I think a reverse ace is a double fault


Perhaps a return winner.


A reverse ace is an eca


That's when the ball bounces back from the netband directly in your ballz![gif](emote|free_emotes_pack|trollface)


A great way to destroy your knee


So clean lol I love seeing these


So a reverse serve is a serve that's hit with the opposite spin than it would have typically?


Yup. Instead of the normal continental grip, just use your forehand grip and serve like normal. This is the result. Surprisingly simple.


Got it, thanks. I've tried it before but it felt really uncomfortable to perform. Maybe it was my grip.


ive been able to do it by brute forcing my arm backwards. its not as fast but its got the spin. so you keep a normal grip, but just swing backwards


Isnt this hard on your wrist?


The American Twist! My fav tennis shot. New fan for Fritz!


I'm so confused. Is he serving with the forehand grip here?


Pancake grip, essentially holding the racket face parallel to the ground.


If you want to see more of these check out Simon Freund


Used to be my only serve until I learned I’m serving wrong. Now I ca man barely hit it in, requires a certain feel that I’ve lost.


I still have no idea how someone hits that serve. I get slice and kick, but this just doesn't make sense


Sweet! Let's go Taylor Spritez


I try this serve at least 2-3 times a match. Not all that successful but not that hard either. Albeit I'm not playing on this high level a stage


Okay now I have to learn how to do this lol 👀


Shock and awe, then she talks the shot down to not hurt the feelings of her collague? Yeah really funny!


I have that shot (no, not that shot, but that idea), but if I use it more than once a month my arm gets wanged out.


Pancake serve!