So that means next year she will win 8. The year after that, 10. She will probably need to get to 14 to beat Swiatek at the French so Coco over Swiatek in 2027?
Love Iga, but she is honestly just asking to get hit on those balls. She just comes right at the net player on short put-aways, hoping that their instinct not to hit at her screws them up, which it does sometimes.
Did you even watch the point she got hit on?
Coco hit a drop shot and Iga barely got to it and had to hit up on it. The exact same sequence happened a few games earlier and Coco tried to go around her and lost the point so this time she went at her.
It’s not like it was an approach shot or put away volley that she hit right back at her opponent.
Oh, I misunderstood the “comes right at the net player” as saying she hits right at them on approach and volleys.
Her movement is still the highest percentage play though, it’s what you’re supposed to do. If you’re hitting up and short, then you stand right in front because it forces your opponent to hit a sharp angle to get around you or at you and that gives you a chance at a reflex volley.
Obviously for the opponent the play is to go at you hard that way even if you get a reflex volley it’ll fly long or wide. Having to make that split decision is what causes the error. Could also go the Lendl route and choose to always go at the player, then it’s no longer a decision lol
But yea, you’re right, she’s essentially putting them to the test of “you willing to hit me or gonna try to go around?”
She definitely is, but I think its totally fair play even if sketchy. She's not in a great position to play a shot necessarily in those positions, and you're signing a contract when you approach the net like that anyway LOL.
PS - Coco is my WTA main, Iga is someone I defintely support though too and appreciate her game _a lot_. I've also have found myself doing what Iga does sometimes on points where I end up at the net without a plan LOL
It was a fair play. Some added context is that a few games prior the exact same shot sequence happened and coco lost the point by trying to go around Iga. Drop shot, Iga gets there but has to hit up, Coco messes up volley by trying to softly go around Iga.
https://www.eurosport.com/tennis/roland-garros/2023/french-open-right-at-her-iga-swiatek-takes-a-tumble-after-a-body-shot-from-coco-gauff_vid1928286/video.shtml
Coco's high topspin forehands to Iga's backhand was about the best thing she was doing. It was more when Coco was trying to hit through the court with the forehand that it went off.
Ha I told my mate yesterday that moonballing hurts me more than pace. Crushed him 6-1, 6-0, 6-3 when he continued to hit pacy shots. He won the one rally where he moonballed me
Moonballing is pretty effective if you can wear out your opponent (at least at more moderate skill levels like 3.5-4.5 rating) - at that level most players can't keep a rally going for too long and can't take advantage of moonballs cause they're hitting them either at shoulder-height at the baseline or waist-height 6 feet behind the baseline. It's likely that they'll eventually bury one of the balls into the net (if they don't adjust grip) or send it floating long (if they hit off their back foot). But moderate players can take more advantage of pace just by absorbing it and block it back, then it gets returned with some pace as well.
She wasn’t gonna win that match hitting forehand loopers. Her backhands are piercing shots that do damage. There’s no reason her forehands shouldn’t do the same, except that she and her team would need to take time off tour to reengineer that stroke.
coco's forehand is ridiculously bad, i have seen some players struggle going cross court some player struggle going down the line but with coco every shot looks like its bad. iga generated so many short balls by simply going to that forehand thankfully for coco iga's radar was a bit off today otherwise the scoreline would have looked a lot worse.
Her speed is something I hadn’t noticed. So many shots that I thought were winners she got to. Really explains how she’s able to manage wins despite her loopy forehand.
Yes, you do. Errani reached 2 finals without a serve. Many WTA players are simply awful at strategy and/or at staying tactically disciplined like Iga and they fail to exploit the big weaknesses of the opponents.
Your “idea” of a bad forehand, is still a world class forehand. Coco wouldn’t have made it this far in the tournament, her forehand would’ve been picked on and exploited and she would’ve been knocked out within the first few rounds if that was true.
She exploited their weaknesses better than they exploited hers. She thinks about tactics unlike most WTA players, that's why she always beat lower ranked players.
Spot on. When you look at Gauff's record against top 20 players against players outside the top 50, it paints a picture.
Elite players are able to exploit weaknesses much more effectively.
Her forehand was awesome during the first few rounds. you could tell she's been working on it.
It started breaking down more in the last match. In this match it looked like a strategy to hit high topspin to Iga's backhand and it was working in the first set.
But there were several tight forehands otherwise.
She hasn't beaten a top 30 opponent in 2 years at the French.
Against inferior opposition, you can get away with having mediocre strokes like her forehand because the rest of her game is elite.
It's partly why she has such a poor record against top 20 players and a great one against opponents outside the top 50.
maybe it just goes off against iga cuz of her heavy topspin.she had a similar day against badosa who plays with heavy topspin.
its always not that bad ,against mirra andreeva it was good as she managed to hit some winners from it.
A grip change is the worst possible thing she could do right now. She needs to fix the takeback. There are players who use extreme western forehand grips to great success—see Khachanov, Kyrgios, Keys, Stephens, and most notably Swiatek herself. Coco just has a really bad takeback on the stroke that fucks up her timing and racket head speed.
Great match, good effort from Coco.
Wondering how Iga would cope with Bia tomorrow, given she lost their only previous meeting last year in Canada.
Iga looks strong and focused, which is great to see.
Apparently Coco made the fastest women's serve of *all time* this tournament. At least in terms of official WTA recognition. She's below Sabalenka and Varcia Perez unofficially.
Some people also think Gauff is the only player out there who will get better. She gets beat by plenty of others besides Iga. There is no guarantee she will be a world beater despite the hype.
What a strange comment.
Haven't you ever learned how to do something?
My brain isn't even all plastic like Coco's is because I'm much older now and even I get better every year. She will learn what she needs to do.
And Iga is NOT superior in all departments. Coco is faster, more athletic and more mentally tough. (I haven't seen her cry during a match or give up yet like I've seen Iga do several times. If I remember correctly, the tears were after the RG final last year, not during. And even the GOAT has done that)
Still, take a look at Gauff's body language and face before her next match against Iga. She looks like she would rather be anywhere else and just awaits punishment. She can talk about competitiveness and desire to beat her all she wants, but when shit hits the fan, she's just plain scared of Iga. That is not a top athlete mentality.
Everything is relative.
I have seen Iga CRY in the middle of a match. I have seen Osaka cry mid match, Azarenka WALK OFF the court - just because she was getting beaten (one of those sisters.. Linda something??) Anisimova quit mid match, Badosa quit match... and this is just the WTA. ATP gives a whole other level of meltdown. Rackets thrown, players throwing fits.. all kinds of things. I have only seen something like this once from Gauff and it was when she was a junior.
She hasn't been a junior since she was 14.
She has lost to Iga seven times now - of course she's going to be visibly nervous.
This is a good example:
[https://www.instagram.com/stories/rolandgarros/3119888559220381224/](https://www.instagram.com/stories/rolandgarros/3119888559220381224/)
Look at the contrast. Coco is clearly not comfortable to be there. For Iga it's just another day in the office.
I don't do instagram.
But honestly - you're stating the obvious. How can she be comfortable?? She's crazy mature so people have such high expectations of her but she's still a kid facing an older opponent she hasn't figured out how to beat yet.
Is this top athlete mentality?
https://youtu.be/XnqJ-9AfWYg
Coco literally teared up and essentially gave up this match. She was getting frustrated and had bad body language. Sorry those last few unforced errors was because she had mentally capitulated.
Also being upset or crying doesn’t mean ur mentally weak. Novak has been upset many times and really frustrated but still won the match. That in my opinion is real mental strength, to have a lot of adversity and be frustrated and still persevere.
People’s mental strength is not static there is a margin. Coco’s mental strength today was at her lowest level.
I must have missed the tearing up.
And I did NOT see her giving up.
I saw the end of the first match - THAT to me looked like giving up. Coco just got beat.
edit - ok - on second thought - I watched the whole match. when was the tearing up??
There's no winning or losing. I see things how I see them. Simple as that.
My p.ov. is just as valid as anyone else's.
And I didn't say Iga is not any of those things. I just believe Coco is faster and more athletic, and more mentally tough. These qualities are why she's been able to end every year higher in the rankings than the year before and reach top 10 in singles and doubles - despite having a weaker than average forehand.
Iga has a woman sitting in her box - the mental coach - whose only job is to take care of the mental aspects of her game and she's mostly done a good job.
Well it’s about time, Coco Gauff is a top 10 player. She shouldn’t continue being baked by Iga. At some point if you play someone 7 times it’s expected u at least get closer matches.
Just like Novak owns Monfils but he doesn’t always win in straight set or easily. Sometimes Monfils steals a set or two.
.. you do realize that's when the player starts to set the bar high you get those takes right ?
Nadal was Shat on in this sub for beating sinner at rg 2020 in straights for his level.. that's a tourney he later would win without dropping a single set .
The only reason people were commenting in that way is it's because it's Rafa at rg and he sets the bar obscenely high. Swiatek is 22 yrs old, world number 1 , and approaching her third rg by age 22.. some people perceive that as a similar caliber of player in her respective tour.
when Nadal would drop a set or go to 7-5 in a set at RG, everyone would be ringing doomsday bells and congratulating the player who got 5 games on him in a set. it was hilarious. that Sinner match wasn’t particularly close. the last two sets were 6-3 6-1 if I remember correctly. but it felt close because that’s the closest thing Nadal had to actual competition all tournament. schwartzman put up an okay fight too.
I was a bit worried about Iga with all those break points, but she really ramped up her level after around 2-2 in the second.
What is it about the matchup that makes it so lopsided? Is it just the FH?
Can someone explain what’s wrong with Coco’s forehand and how she can fix it? It feels way too spinny to me which obviously keeps it in play, but she can’t hit through it. I’m just wondering if it’s really a technical issue or just a footwork/anticipation issue.
How many players have legitimately “fixed” their forehand at this level?
Honestly if she didn’t bother with that atp style setup and just had a standard wta loop it would help her timing a ton but it’s a tough change without going through some setbacks.
Coco’s forehand simply doesn’t penetrate the court enough. The forehands she hits now would work at the ITF and junior levels, but certainly not pro level. She needs to drive her arm through the shot more so the ball rolls off her racket still generating topspin, but keeping it lower and harder.
as a coco fan i am so proud of her 🥹 no bakery products and that first set was actually competitive! a much better showing than in last years final! hopefully her and jpeg get the doubles win!
People are gonna dismiss her performance because she lost 0-2, but that was a "positive" loss. She went here with a clear gameplan and executed it very well in the 1st set, she was the 1st player of the tournament to really bother Swiatek. Sadly, she didn't take the (very few) opportunities Iga gave her, and her 1st serve percentage didn't help her at all (it was probably a mix of having to serve extremely well against Iga on clay + the windy conditions), and the nerves got her at 4-5, then it was over. But that was a way more convincing performance than any of the matches she had against Swiatek so far, and the fact that she tried to adapt strategically and succeeded for a set proved she's working smart. I trust her to keep the hard work, and fingers crossed for the doubles tournament!
> she was the 1st player of the tournament to really bother Swiatek
I dont agree that Iga was bothered at any point - especially at 3-2 in first set throughout to 4-4 Iga was in control of every point and the lost ones were always due to her playing too fast and not Coco actually taking control.
Remember that in 2nd set Coco was close to a break only because of a bad line call when the out ball was actually called in - there was a lot of *lucky* moments for Gauff and even when it felt like the stars are aligning in the 1st set for Coco with how many points she won due to Iga just missing easy shots she still couldnt even carry it to tiebreak.
In the 2nd set she tried to go more agressive but that only lead to UEs and more oppurtunities for Swiatek. I dunno to me their final was actually close than this game
I think she didn't try to "take control" on purpose. She knew she couldn't overpower Iga, especially with her forehand, so she focused on hitting long loopy balls, mostly on her backhand, so Iga couldn't accelerate while standing on the baseline/inside the court like she loves to do. A lot of Iga's errors in the first came from her trying to hit an attack on one of those shots without moving back, so it bothered her despite not being the most impressive tactic.
As for whether it was closer than last year, the stats suggest so, but I guess the fact that the 2nd set was closer last year while the 1st one was closer today makes it feel otherwise.
Tactical, many coaches teach players to hit the first ball to the opponent who's coming to the net to make them volley, this can cause a mistake or give them a easier ball after a bad volley
this is basically the premise of the “two shot passing shot.” the first ball will go straight at or near the opponent’s body, and most pros will get it back in play, but the second shot will be an easy passing shot. going at the body is a very common tactic in tennis, it’s just in certain situations where players get mad.
It's not a mistake, it's a legitimate play - for the same reason that serving at the body works too. It handcuffs your opponent by forcing them to move unnaturally to try to get their racket on the ball. Doesn't mean she 'wants' to hit her, but you want to get it close enough to make the return very difficult.
it's also a good intimidation tactic even if it's looked down upon. it's like telling your opponent "bitch stay the fuck back or you getting smoked in your face"
Like a typical picky Iga fan I was initially inclined to write some critique regarding too many unforced errors and whatnot...
But then I looked at her scorelines, amount of time spent on court during the whole tournament, and I think there's absolutely zero point in such critique. She's steamrolling through this tournament. I'm just really impressed and can't wait for the Haddad Maia match !
Coco had a real chance at 4-4 in the first set. It's crazy how a few points can cause you to lose a set, the carry that over into the next and before you know it it's over.
Toronto won't matter much in context of tomorrow. Different everything: surface, balls, players' forms.
I think it might be a pretty cool match, hopefully not one-sided. But the difference in amount of time spent on court in case of these two is insane (12h 55min vs 5h 32min to be precise) . Iga is fresh, BHM played almost exclusively long marathons. I think it's gonna make a difference at this stage (SF). We've seen similar scenario many times already.
True, but it seems that BHM knows how to win difficult matches. And when Iga starts losing, she's letting others in her head.
It will be either a very interesting match or a routine
> And when Iga starts losing, she's letting others in her head.
This is probably my biggest concern for the match tomorrow. While she’s had a few hiccups in the previous rounds, she hasn’t been required to cope with seemingly catastrophic setbacks (being down a double break, dropping a set, etc.), and I’m in a lot of suspense as to how Iga will react to having potentially larger obstacles in her path.
1. She’s the best mover on tour. Insane raw speed, balance, anticipation, and very intricate footwork.
2. She hits hard off both wings. No weak stroke unless her opponent is seriously rushing her.
3. Clay is her best surface.
4. She is the best tactician on the tour.
5. She is the best returner on the tour (statistically).
6. Specifically regarding this result—she matches up extremely well against Gauff.
Movement (sliding, very quick,takes numerous microsteps in preparation for every shot, whereas many opponents would take 1-2 bigger steps in similar situation), return (the best return stats in WTA), very physical baseline game with deep shot placement (backhand, top spin forehand), high kick service that she can use if necessary.
Disadvantages: if the ball bounce is too low (like on grass) she may not have enough time to prepare a shot with extreme western forehand grip.
Yup, it's a huge advantage for her. Similar to Barty's slice in that it's a shot that no else on tour has, resulting in players being unprepared for it.
They said Coco’s first serve percentage was like 35% or something after the first set. That’s ridiculous, if she could fix that, everything would change, shit forehand or not.
Great from Iga as usual.
I think her serve percentage was low because she took a lot of risks on her serve deliberately. It didn't pay off, maybe because of the wind, but I think that just analyzing it as "Coco's serve is terrible" is a bit unfair to her.
During the match it showed she’s ranked 21st in holding her serve. Which is unsurprising, she’s always had this problem even if her percentage wasn’t necessarily this low.
Coco's now taken 26 games in her last 6 matches against Swiatek (4.3 games/match) and hasn't won a set in 7 matches.
This could get ugly for her over the next few years if she doesn't drastically improve her forehand.
Good match, Coco played well but Iga is Iga.
Just two matches and a dollop of luck to nab grand slam number four.
They will be tough, it's the business end of a slam after all, but if anyone can do it, it's Iga.
Gauff needs to get the hell away from Mouratogolou. He's not going to improve her game, and she needs a coach who will do something about that forehand. People always bring up Serena's success with him, but she didn't need to improve her game when she teamed up with PM; she just needed renewed vigor and motivation.
If Iga gets to the final but Aryna loses in the semifinal, Iga stays first. Otherwise, it's either Iga loses to Haddad Maia (meaning Aryna becomes #1), or Aryna vs Iga final for #1.
she needs to be better than Sabalenka. So if Sabalenka let's say loses the semis and Iga wins then she stays at number 1 regardless if she wins in the final.
Saw somewhere on this sub that Iga needed to win one more match than Sabalenka to retain world #1. So she either needs to get to the final if Sabalenka loses tomorrow or win the whole thing if she faces Sabalenka in the final.
Are you sure? I thought that she just needs to do better than Sabalenka now that she’s reached the semi. Saba’s like 300 points ahead of her in live ranking iirc, and that’s covered by making the final if Sabalenka loses in the semi unless I’m missing something.
i'd vouch for Maria vs. Serena at this point. Sharapova had 2 wins 7 matches in against Serena when Williams already had 6 slams. Maria was even younger than Coco is now. Sure, she didnt win again after that, but at least was able to win a set here there or get to a tiebreak. Plus Iga is already living in Cocos head rent-free, it doesnt look good.
Gauff did way better in this match than in any of their more recent encounters, and she still had no chance whatsoever at the end of the day. That's just Iga on clay, I suppose...
let the expert comments on Coco Gauff's terrible, unworkable forehand which she needs to take 13 years off from the tour to work on roll in!! make me proud reddit!!
She deliberately didn't accelerate on her forehand size, and preferred to redirect long, high balls on Iga's backhand to bother her. That was part of her gameplan, and the fact that the first set was close up until the last game shows it was a smart choice.
It's a good plan to mix that shot in, but it's a bad plan overall to not be able to drive a forehand and end the match with 1 forehand winner. Imagine how much better she would have done if that loopy long forehand swing could drive the ball like every other top 10 player.
Let's not pretend that her forehand was good at all lol, she did absolutely nothing with that forehand today
If anything this proved yet again she needs to fix it. She's SO good already even with that mess of a forehand. If she does it she can be world #1.
It has serious technical deficiencies. It’s not the first time a top 10 player has major issues with technique which is often places a cap player’s career ceiling. She could win a major with her current game so long as she avoids big hitting players but unfortunately for her there are three very good ones who are all a few years her senior and getting better.
I'm not saying she's playing bad or anything, just in first set there were UEs from easy, high balls. I know it was Gauff strategy, but from middle of the court? It was not typical Iga
I think she wouldn't. Just take a look at their Stuttgart and Madrid matches. Compare conditions with those in Paris.
Sabalenka won't have to play a single seeded opponent here until the final. I think that slightly affects our perception. She hasn't faced an opponent that would put up some serious resistance yet. The closest to it was (I guess) Sloane who won some 5 games in a row & came quite close to winning the set.
Coco won 4 games in the final last year. She won 6 today. Massive improvement! Swiatek only won 12 again, poor girl. lol
Coco improved by 50%!
Assuming a straight set victory, CoCo is on pace to win in 3 years!
22 - same age Iga is now.
It's not a failure. It's steps to success. - Coco Gaukoumpo
Average ESPN tennis commentary
Knowing ESPN, they’ll probably steal this and put it as a headline
ESPN tennis commentators in Latin America are sooo good, I can't relate 😅
So that means next year she will win 8. The year after that, 10. She will probably need to get to 14 to beat Swiatek at the French so Coco over Swiatek in 2027?
And, had they ran against each other enough times, Mondale would have eventually defeated Reagan
Iga only let Coco win one game after getting hit by her at the net 🥶
Fuck around and find out.
act up you can get snatched up
Chat shit get banged.
Jamie Vardy is that you?
Now she delirious
Is that 2pac?
felt that was more on coco: some god awful errors in the following few games
Love Iga, but she is honestly just asking to get hit on those balls. She just comes right at the net player on short put-aways, hoping that their instinct not to hit at her screws them up, which it does sometimes.
> She just comes right at the net player on short put-aways You ain't get trophies by stepping back.
Did you even watch the point she got hit on? Coco hit a drop shot and Iga barely got to it and had to hit up on it. The exact same sequence happened a few games earlier and Coco tried to go around her and lost the point so this time she went at her. It’s not like it was an approach shot or put away volley that she hit right back at her opponent.
I don't mean how she hit it, i mean how she moved toward coco after hitting it.
Oh, I misunderstood the “comes right at the net player” as saying she hits right at them on approach and volleys. Her movement is still the highest percentage play though, it’s what you’re supposed to do. If you’re hitting up and short, then you stand right in front because it forces your opponent to hit a sharp angle to get around you or at you and that gives you a chance at a reflex volley. Obviously for the opponent the play is to go at you hard that way even if you get a reflex volley it’ll fly long or wide. Having to make that split decision is what causes the error. Could also go the Lendl route and choose to always go at the player, then it’s no longer a decision lol But yea, you’re right, she’s essentially putting them to the test of “you willing to hit me or gonna try to go around?”
You’re exactly right and she would agree with you - that’s the idea
She definitely is, but I think its totally fair play even if sketchy. She's not in a great position to play a shot necessarily in those positions, and you're signing a contract when you approach the net like that anyway LOL. PS - Coco is my WTA main, Iga is someone I defintely support though too and appreciate her game _a lot_. I've also have found myself doing what Iga does sometimes on points where I end up at the net without a plan LOL
It did once
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It wasn’t crazy or anything and Iga shook it off
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/r/badwomensanatomy/
It was a fair play. Some added context is that a few games prior the exact same shot sequence happened and coco lost the point by trying to go around Iga. Drop shot, Iga gets there but has to hit up, Coco messes up volley by trying to softly go around Iga. https://www.eurosport.com/tennis/roland-garros/2023/french-open-right-at-her-iga-swiatek-takes-a-tumble-after-a-body-shot-from-coco-gauff_vid1928286/video.shtml
Iga’s forehands: go through the court Coco’s forehands: go up
Coco's high topspin forehands to Iga's backhand was about the best thing she was doing. It was more when Coco was trying to hit through the court with the forehand that it went off.
Ha I told my mate yesterday that moonballing hurts me more than pace. Crushed him 6-1, 6-0, 6-3 when he continued to hit pacy shots. He won the one rally where he moonballed me
Moonballing is pretty effective if you can wear out your opponent (at least at more moderate skill levels like 3.5-4.5 rating) - at that level most players can't keep a rally going for too long and can't take advantage of moonballs cause they're hitting them either at shoulder-height at the baseline or waist-height 6 feet behind the baseline. It's likely that they'll eventually bury one of the balls into the net (if they don't adjust grip) or send it floating long (if they hit off their back foot). But moderate players can take more advantage of pace just by absorbing it and block it back, then it gets returned with some pace as well.
I feel like she lost every point when she hit a cross court forehand
She wasn’t gonna win that match hitting forehand loopers. Her backhands are piercing shots that do damage. There’s no reason her forehands shouldn’t do the same, except that she and her team would need to take time off tour to reengineer that stroke.
That high shot to the backhand was what gave her a chance in the first set. It was the only thing that was bothering Iga.
coco's forehand is ridiculously bad, i have seen some players struggle going cross court some player struggle going down the line but with coco every shot looks like its bad. iga generated so many short balls by simply going to that forehand thankfully for coco iga's radar was a bit off today otherwise the scoreline would have looked a lot worse.
You don’t reach the quarter finals of the French Open by having a bad forehand..
Yet she did. Because she has a good overall game, nice volley, good variations, good tactical skills... But she won't win a slam with no weapon
Her speed is something I hadn’t noticed. So many shots that I thought were winners she got to. Really explains how she’s able to manage wins despite her loopy forehand.
Her backhand is one of the best on the tour
Michael Chang was a 5ft 9in player without any major weapons and he ended up winning Roland Garros in 1989. It’s not an impossible feat.
He had a major weapon in 1989 : his speed
>speed that's kinda what Coco is known for.
He was quick, but speed alone doesn’t win you a title at Roland Garros
It did back then when no one else was even close to matching his speed. He’s extremely fast for even players today
Yes, you do. Errani reached 2 finals without a serve. Many WTA players are simply awful at strategy and/or at staying tactically disciplined like Iga and they fail to exploit the big weaknesses of the opponents.
Errani reached one final, and it was at the French, where the importance of the serve isn't as relevant as it is on other surfaces.
She reached the SF in the US Open as well with a serve like that (and QF in Australia).
Your “idea” of a bad forehand, is still a world class forehand. Coco wouldn’t have made it this far in the tournament, her forehand would’ve been picked on and exploited and she would’ve been knocked out within the first few rounds if that was true.
She exploited their weaknesses better than they exploited hers. She thinks about tactics unlike most WTA players, that's why she always beat lower ranked players.
Coco didn't play a top 60 player until Iga. Lower ranked players usually don't have the weapons to make Gauff pay for her forehand.
Spot on. When you look at Gauff's record against top 20 players against players outside the top 50, it paints a picture. Elite players are able to exploit weaknesses much more effectively.
Her forehand was awesome during the first few rounds. you could tell she's been working on it. It started breaking down more in the last match. In this match it looked like a strategy to hit high topspin to Iga's backhand and it was working in the first set. But there were several tight forehands otherwise.
She hasn't beaten a top 30 opponent in 2 years at the French. Against inferior opposition, you can get away with having mediocre strokes like her forehand because the rest of her game is elite. It's partly why she has such a poor record against top 20 players and a great one against opponents outside the top 50.
maybe it just goes off against iga cuz of her heavy topspin.she had a similar day against badosa who plays with heavy topspin. its always not that bad ,against mirra andreeva it was good as she managed to hit some winners from it.
She was -purposefully hitting loopy forehands to iga’s backhand. But coco needs to change her grip so she has more forehand options
A grip change is the worst possible thing she could do right now. She needs to fix the takeback. There are players who use extreme western forehand grips to great success—see Khachanov, Kyrgios, Keys, Stephens, and most notably Swiatek herself. Coco just has a really bad takeback on the stroke that fucks up her timing and racket head speed.
Great match, good effort from Coco. Wondering how Iga would cope with Bia tomorrow, given she lost their only previous meeting last year in Canada. Iga looks strong and focused, which is great to see.
Iga is a problem that Gauff has to figure out a way to solve asap, otherwise their H2H is going to be more lopsided than that of Sharapova and Serena.
How is she is meant to solve it? Iga is superior in all departments.
Not true. Gauff has a more ~~power~~ powerful serve. Behind Rybakina, I think she has the second-fastest serve in this tournament.
Apparently Coco made the fastest women's serve of *all time* this tournament. At least in terms of official WTA recognition. She's below Sabalenka and Varcia Perez unofficially.
I thought it was Rybakina at 199, no?
Lol. Is Gauff unable to improve?
No, but saying she needs to figure out how to beat Iga asap is pretty weird considering how much better Iga is right now
Some people also think Gauff is the only player out there who will get better. She gets beat by plenty of others besides Iga. There is no guarantee she will be a world beater despite the hype.
What a strange comment. Haven't you ever learned how to do something? My brain isn't even all plastic like Coco's is because I'm much older now and even I get better every year. She will learn what she needs to do. And Iga is NOT superior in all departments. Coco is faster, more athletic and more mentally tough. (I haven't seen her cry during a match or give up yet like I've seen Iga do several times. If I remember correctly, the tears were after the RG final last year, not during. And even the GOAT has done that)
Mentally tough? She loses against Iga in the locker room.
She loses against Iga just like everyone else loses to Iga. She just plays her more because she goes deep in a lot of tournaments.
Still, take a look at Gauff's body language and face before her next match against Iga. She looks like she would rather be anywhere else and just awaits punishment. She can talk about competitiveness and desire to beat her all she wants, but when shit hits the fan, she's just plain scared of Iga. That is not a top athlete mentality.
Everything is relative. I have seen Iga CRY in the middle of a match. I have seen Osaka cry mid match, Azarenka WALK OFF the court - just because she was getting beaten (one of those sisters.. Linda something??) Anisimova quit mid match, Badosa quit match... and this is just the WTA. ATP gives a whole other level of meltdown. Rackets thrown, players throwing fits.. all kinds of things. I have only seen something like this once from Gauff and it was when she was a junior. She hasn't been a junior since she was 14. She has lost to Iga seven times now - of course she's going to be visibly nervous.
This is a good example: [https://www.instagram.com/stories/rolandgarros/3119888559220381224/](https://www.instagram.com/stories/rolandgarros/3119888559220381224/) Look at the contrast. Coco is clearly not comfortable to be there. For Iga it's just another day in the office.
I don't do instagram. But honestly - you're stating the obvious. How can she be comfortable?? She's crazy mature so people have such high expectations of her but she's still a kid facing an older opponent she hasn't figured out how to beat yet. Is this top athlete mentality? https://youtu.be/XnqJ-9AfWYg
Coco literally teared up and essentially gave up this match. She was getting frustrated and had bad body language. Sorry those last few unforced errors was because she had mentally capitulated. Also being upset or crying doesn’t mean ur mentally weak. Novak has been upset many times and really frustrated but still won the match. That in my opinion is real mental strength, to have a lot of adversity and be frustrated and still persevere. People’s mental strength is not static there is a margin. Coco’s mental strength today was at her lowest level.
I must have missed the tearing up. And I did NOT see her giving up. I saw the end of the first match - THAT to me looked like giving up. Coco just got beat. edit - ok - on second thought - I watched the whole match. when was the tearing up??
Discrediting Iga's speed, athletic and mental toughness is the way to losing an argument.
There's no winning or losing. I see things how I see them. Simple as that. My p.ov. is just as valid as anyone else's. And I didn't say Iga is not any of those things. I just believe Coco is faster and more athletic, and more mentally tough. These qualities are why she's been able to end every year higher in the rankings than the year before and reach top 10 in singles and doubles - despite having a weaker than average forehand. Iga has a woman sitting in her box - the mental coach - whose only job is to take care of the mental aspects of her game and she's mostly done a good job.
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The Liu match was 1h29 minutes though?
Time is a flat circle
😂
Yeah, but that's only in terms of minutes.
According to Roland Garros website only 1:28
7-0 H2H, 14-0 in terms of sets
insane
I've seen this before
ngl, that was a lot closer than I expected.... not a bakery product in sight
Well it’s about time, Coco Gauff is a top 10 player. She shouldn’t continue being baked by Iga. At some point if you play someone 7 times it’s expected u at least get closer matches. Just like Novak owns Monfils but he doesn’t always win in straight set or easily. Sometimes Monfils steals a set or two.
it's weird how if any other player wins 6-4 6-2, they were the better player throughout. If Iga wins 6-4 6-2, Iga 'wasn't playing that well'
where... did I say that lol
hey I wasn't criticizing you. It's just crazy how high the expectations are for Iga
I mean, shouldn’t they be?
.. you do realize that's when the player starts to set the bar high you get those takes right ? Nadal was Shat on in this sub for beating sinner at rg 2020 in straights for his level.. that's a tourney he later would win without dropping a single set . The only reason people were commenting in that way is it's because it's Rafa at rg and he sets the bar obscenely high. Swiatek is 22 yrs old, world number 1 , and approaching her third rg by age 22.. some people perceive that as a similar caliber of player in her respective tour.
I think the comment was more an appreciation for how good she’s playing: the scoreline looks “bad” by Swietak’s standards.
when Nadal would drop a set or go to 7-5 in a set at RG, everyone would be ringing doomsday bells and congratulating the player who got 5 games on him in a set. it was hilarious. that Sinner match wasn’t particularly close. the last two sets were 6-3 6-1 if I remember correctly. but it felt close because that’s the closest thing Nadal had to actual competition all tournament. schwartzman put up an okay fight too.
2 steps closer to defend the Slam title which didn’t happen in WTA since… I’ll guess I test your memory 😉 Since when and who was it and which Slam?
2015/2016 USO Serena
Serena - correct Years - correct Slam - it was Wimbledon
Noooooo, almost got it hahahaha
To be fair, no man has defended a USO Title since federer in 2008 😂 (and Rafa is the only one to even win more than 2 since that time)
Djokovic won 2011, 2015, 2018. Nadal is the only one to win more than 3 technically, having won 2010, 2013, 2017, 2019.
Hahahaha, the impossible to defend
Coco still hasn't won a set against Świątek
Iga’s serve improvements have been underplayed! Speed has increased dramatically. Gives her so many free points!
Iga served one 191 kph serve!
I was a bit worried about Iga with all those break points, but she really ramped up her level after around 2-2 in the second. What is it about the matchup that makes it so lopsided? Is it just the FH?
It's primarily Cocos forehand, her first serve percentage, and probably a bit mental as well.
Well, "just" the forehand, but forehands are pretty important, and Iga's is probably the best, and Coco's is one of the worst in the top 50.
this plus the real estate situation in Coco's head
Fun fact : in 2 previous editions of Roland Garros the player who defeated Coco Gauff went on to become a champion.
Can someone explain what’s wrong with Coco’s forehand and how she can fix it? It feels way too spinny to me which obviously keeps it in play, but she can’t hit through it. I’m just wondering if it’s really a technical issue or just a footwork/anticipation issue. How many players have legitimately “fixed” their forehand at this level?
Her swing is too long and loopy. She needs to shorten it. Justine Henin dramatically improved her forehand, though it was never as bad as Cocos.
Henin modelled much of her game, including the forehand, after men's tennis. It was a legit weapon by 2003 and onwards.
Gauff also has a wildly inconsistent contact point on her forehand.
Honestly if she didn’t bother with that atp style setup and just had a standard wta loop it would help her timing a ton but it’s a tough change without going through some setbacks.
Coco’s forehand simply doesn’t penetrate the court enough. The forehands she hits now would work at the ITF and junior levels, but certainly not pro level. She needs to drive her arm through the shot more so the ball rolls off her racket still generating topspin, but keeping it lower and harder.
Hey, at least Coco is doing better than ‘ol 0-18 Gasquett
So far Remind me in like 15 years
as a coco fan i am so proud of her 🥹 no bakery products and that first set was actually competitive! a much better showing than in last years final! hopefully her and jpeg get the doubles win!
People are gonna dismiss her performance because she lost 0-2, but that was a "positive" loss. She went here with a clear gameplan and executed it very well in the 1st set, she was the 1st player of the tournament to really bother Swiatek. Sadly, she didn't take the (very few) opportunities Iga gave her, and her 1st serve percentage didn't help her at all (it was probably a mix of having to serve extremely well against Iga on clay + the windy conditions), and the nerves got her at 4-5, then it was over. But that was a way more convincing performance than any of the matches she had against Swiatek so far, and the fact that she tried to adapt strategically and succeeded for a set proved she's working smart. I trust her to keep the hard work, and fingers crossed for the doubles tournament!
> she was the 1st player of the tournament to really bother Swiatek I dont agree that Iga was bothered at any point - especially at 3-2 in first set throughout to 4-4 Iga was in control of every point and the lost ones were always due to her playing too fast and not Coco actually taking control. Remember that in 2nd set Coco was close to a break only because of a bad line call when the out ball was actually called in - there was a lot of *lucky* moments for Gauff and even when it felt like the stars are aligning in the 1st set for Coco with how many points she won due to Iga just missing easy shots she still couldnt even carry it to tiebreak. In the 2nd set she tried to go more agressive but that only lead to UEs and more oppurtunities for Swiatek. I dunno to me their final was actually close than this game
I think she didn't try to "take control" on purpose. She knew she couldn't overpower Iga, especially with her forehand, so she focused on hitting long loopy balls, mostly on her backhand, so Iga couldn't accelerate while standing on the baseline/inside the court like she loves to do. A lot of Iga's errors in the first came from her trying to hit an attack on one of those shots without moving back, so it bothered her despite not being the most impressive tactic. As for whether it was closer than last year, the stats suggest so, but I guess the fact that the 2nd set was closer last year while the 1st one was closer today makes it feel otherwise.
who made that stat saying it was going to be 6-2 6-4 lol
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It’s definitely not common but not something most people bat an eye at because it’s not rare either!
My coach has taught me to hit it through the net person, all our juniors are taught this also. Extremely fair in tennis.
Tactical, many coaches teach players to hit the first ball to the opponent who's coming to the net to make them volley, this can cause a mistake or give them a easier ball after a bad volley
this is basically the premise of the “two shot passing shot.” the first ball will go straight at or near the opponent’s body, and most pros will get it back in play, but the second shot will be an easy passing shot. going at the body is a very common tactic in tennis, it’s just in certain situations where players get mad.
It's not a mistake, it's a legitimate play - for the same reason that serving at the body works too. It handcuffs your opponent by forcing them to move unnaturally to try to get their racket on the ball. Doesn't mean she 'wants' to hit her, but you want to get it close enough to make the return very difficult.
it's also a good intimidation tactic even if it's looked down upon. it's like telling your opponent "bitch stay the fuck back or you getting smoked in your face"
Coco is awesome but Iga has simply got her number
Like a typical picky Iga fan I was initially inclined to write some critique regarding too many unforced errors and whatnot... But then I looked at her scorelines, amount of time spent on court during the whole tournament, and I think there's absolutely zero point in such critique. She's steamrolling through this tournament. I'm just really impressed and can't wait for the Haddad Maia match !
Coco had a real chance at 4-4 in the first set. It's crazy how a few points can cause you to lose a set, the carry that over into the next and before you know it it's over.
That's about what I expected, Iga's just on another planet here. 7-0 H2H (and 14-0 sets) has to be disheartening for Coco.
Okay so this is where the fun begins: what are yalls predictions for Iga vs Bea? Toronto was a fast hard court?
Toronto won't matter much in context of tomorrow. Different everything: surface, balls, players' forms. I think it might be a pretty cool match, hopefully not one-sided. But the difference in amount of time spent on court in case of these two is insane (12h 55min vs 5h 32min to be precise) . Iga is fresh, BHM played almost exclusively long marathons. I think it's gonna make a difference at this stage (SF). We've seen similar scenario many times already.
True, but it seems that BHM knows how to win difficult matches. And when Iga starts losing, she's letting others in her head. It will be either a very interesting match or a routine
> And when Iga starts losing, she's letting others in her head. This is probably my biggest concern for the match tomorrow. While she’s had a few hiccups in the previous rounds, she hasn’t been required to cope with seemingly catastrophic setbacks (being down a double break, dropping a set, etc.), and I’m in a lot of suspense as to how Iga will react to having potentially larger obstacles in her path.
What about Iga's style of play is resulting in her being so dominant?
1. She’s the best mover on tour. Insane raw speed, balance, anticipation, and very intricate footwork. 2. She hits hard off both wings. No weak stroke unless her opponent is seriously rushing her. 3. Clay is her best surface. 4. She is the best tactician on the tour. 5. She is the best returner on the tour (statistically). 6. Specifically regarding this result—she matches up extremely well against Gauff.
Movement (sliding, very quick,takes numerous microsteps in preparation for every shot, whereas many opponents would take 1-2 bigger steps in similar situation), return (the best return stats in WTA), very physical baseline game with deep shot placement (backhand, top spin forehand), high kick service that she can use if necessary. Disadvantages: if the ball bounce is too low (like on grass) she may not have enough time to prepare a shot with extreme western forehand grip.
Top spin. Extreme grip that she rips. Woman aren’t used to it.
Yup, it's a huge advantage for her. Similar to Barty's slice in that it's a shot that no else on tour has, resulting in players being unprepared for it.
They said Coco’s first serve percentage was like 35% or something after the first set. That’s ridiculous, if she could fix that, everything would change, shit forehand or not. Great from Iga as usual.
I think her serve percentage was low because she took a lot of risks on her serve deliberately. It didn't pay off, maybe because of the wind, but I think that just analyzing it as "Coco's serve is terrible" is a bit unfair to her.
During the match it showed she’s ranked 21st in holding her serve. Which is unsurprising, she’s always had this problem even if her percentage wasn’t necessarily this low.
Well…against a player like Iga, I guess that this is what you can consider to be an acceptable loss! Appreciate the effort, Coco!
Coco's now taken 26 games in her last 6 matches against Swiatek (4.3 games/match) and hasn't won a set in 7 matches. This could get ugly for her over the next few years if she doesn't drastically improve her forehand.
Good match, Coco played well but Iga is Iga. Just two matches and a dollop of luck to nab grand slam number four. They will be tough, it's the business end of a slam after all, but if anyone can do it, it's Iga.
She's playing tennis at different level than rest of the women players.
Coco had plenty of opportunities but just couldn’t capitalize. Iga is relentless, even when she’s not playing at her highest level.
She is on her way to another roland garros title.
Gauff needs to get the hell away from Mouratogolou. He's not going to improve her game, and she needs a coach who will do something about that forehand. People always bring up Serena's success with him, but she didn't need to improve her game when she teamed up with PM; she just needed renewed vigor and motivation.
"my forehand is a weapon on clay" ms gogo cauff
No Bagels. Well done Coco.
Igoat Swiatek
"What am I doing wrong?!" - Iga, today. That was weird.
Coco's post match press conference https://youtu.be/iirYh-nQiv0
Simply put, you can’t beat Iga and you’re lucky to beat anyone, with a first serve percentage in the 30s
Can a tennis mathematician answer my question : does Iga stay #1 or she needs to win the whole damn thing ?
If Iga gets to the final but Aryna loses in the semifinal, Iga stays first. Otherwise, it's either Iga loses to Haddad Maia (meaning Aryna becomes #1), or Aryna vs Iga final for #1.
she needs to be better than Sabalenka. So if Sabalenka let's say loses the semis and Iga wins then she stays at number 1 regardless if she wins in the final.
Saw somewhere on this sub that Iga needed to win one more match than Sabalenka to retain world #1. So she either needs to get to the final if Sabalenka loses tomorrow or win the whole thing if she faces Sabalenka in the final.
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Are you sure? I thought that she just needs to do better than Sabalenka now that she’s reached the semi. Saba’s like 300 points ahead of her in live ranking iirc, and that’s covered by making the final if Sabalenka loses in the semi unless I’m missing something.
I love lopsided h2hs! Which means Imma be upset when Gauff finally gets a win and it becomes 16-1
which matchup was closer. pova serena or coco swiatek
i'd vouch for Maria vs. Serena at this point. Sharapova had 2 wins 7 matches in against Serena when Williams already had 6 slams. Maria was even younger than Coco is now. Sure, she didnt win again after that, but at least was able to win a set here there or get to a tiebreak. Plus Iga is already living in Cocos head rent-free, it doesnt look good.
Gauff did way better in this match than in any of their more recent encounters, and she still had no chance whatsoever at the end of the day. That's just Iga on clay, I suppose...
Iga was just playing markedly better throughout. What a player!
Coco Gauff can except Jimmy Butler’s offer now
accept*
Iga swiatek is coco gauff mother
h2h now 7:0...
Feel for Gauff in the sense that she easily could’ve defended all her points with bottom half draw. But she’s improving and her future is so bright.
She wouldn't have beaten Sabalenka or Muchova.
She's a solid player but I feel like her game has been pretty stagnant over the past year or so.
Also, you really think she could've beaten Sabalenka? Lmao, dream on.
I would love the story for Haddad to get through
This is their 7th meeting, and Gauff is yet to win a set.
Patience is a virtue. Waiting for the day Coco finally beats Iga!
let the expert comments on Coco Gauff's terrible, unworkable forehand which she needs to take 13 years off from the tour to work on roll in!! make me proud reddit!!
She hit **ONE** forehand winner in the whole match (in a short ball on the T), how is that OK for a top player?
She deliberately didn't accelerate on her forehand size, and preferred to redirect long, high balls on Iga's backhand to bother her. That was part of her gameplan, and the fact that the first set was close up until the last game shows it was a smart choice.
It's a good plan to mix that shot in, but it's a bad plan overall to not be able to drive a forehand and end the match with 1 forehand winner. Imagine how much better she would have done if that loopy long forehand swing could drive the ball like every other top 10 player.
Let's not pretend that her forehand was good at all lol, she did absolutely nothing with that forehand today If anything this proved yet again she needs to fix it. She's SO good already even with that mess of a forehand. If she does it she can be world #1.
It's not that good for a top player.
It has serious technical deficiencies. It’s not the first time a top 10 player has major issues with technique which is often places a cap player’s career ceiling. She could win a major with her current game so long as she avoids big hitting players but unfortunately for her there are three very good ones who are all a few years her senior and getting better.
IGA needs to raise her level for next matches, but yeah, overall good match
Dude, she's been bagelling people left and right ever since the start of RG. What more do you want from her? 🤣
I'm not saying she's playing bad or anything, just in first set there were UEs from easy, high balls. I know it was Gauff strategy, but from middle of the court? It was not typical Iga
Idk, I feel like this Iga would be wrecked by Sabalenka tbh.
I think she wouldn't. Just take a look at their Stuttgart and Madrid matches. Compare conditions with those in Paris. Sabalenka won't have to play a single seeded opponent here until the final. I think that slightly affects our perception. She hasn't faced an opponent that would put up some serious resistance yet. The closest to it was (I guess) Sloane who won some 5 games in a row & came quite close to winning the set.