T O P
Youniver5e

Madrid slowest? I've always thought it was the fastest of the clay masters considering the high altitude...


Jpw119

CPI only measures the effect of the court surface on the velocity of the ball, so these measurements don't paint a full picture of how altitude or how fast the ball travels through the air affects play


Albiceleste_D10S

CPI doesn't take altitude effects into account (that's speed through the air vs speed off the court)


marshon

thats why the court is so slow, the altitude makes the ball go faster through the air so have really slow clay to balance it out


anonymoususer397

Grand Slams coming next, can anyone predict their CPI ranking?


Extension_Sun_3536

No clue about the actual values, but I assume it would be Wimbledon > Aus Open > US Open > French Open


Earnmuse_is_amanrag

I think US Open is the fastest now


sunseekerslade

Aus Open is low 40's. From last year: "The extreme speed of Melbourne Park's courts have been the talk of the 2021 Australian Open... According to Hawk-Eye, the average CPI at the Australian Open over the past five years is 41, making it consistently a "medium-fast" surface, and still clearly the quickest of the four Slams. However, this year, the CPI has been measured at 50, confirming players' comments about just how fast the courts are playing." https://www.espn.co.uk/tennis/story/_/id/30929156/fast-australian-open-courts-giving-novak-djokovic-unexpected-advantage Basically all the hard courts are medium fast or fast now and Indian Wells is the only slow one.


BigRed323

No way USO is faster than grass.


Yxzyzzyx

I remember seeing a comment where someone said Djokovic said the US Open got a new surface in 2020 that's 20-30% faster than the old one


did_it_my_way

https://www.tennisworldusa.org/tennis/news/USA_Tournaments/90819/here-is-how-the-speed-of-the-courts-of-the-us-open-changes-with-the-new-surface/ Danny Zausner, director of operations at USTA, confirmed that US Open will measure around CPI of 43. In this article shows Canada at 42.8 and Cincinati at 37.4 as of 2019.


dannylenwinn

US Open Flushing Around Shanghai pace at 42.9, Montreal slightly less


did_it_my_way

>Shanghai pace at 42.9, Montreal slightly less If you're referring to the chart in this thread... that's from 2017 which is more outdated than what I've linked. The article I linked is from 2020, which has the speeds as of 2019. Shanghai was at 40.9 as of 2019 and Canada at 42.8.


dannylenwinn

Ah yes that is, there's a new chart


Albiceleste_D10S

I'm pretty sure the new US Open surface is the fastest, followed by AO, then Wimbledon, then RG LOL, this is getting downvoted but it's literally what the CPI actually shows, I'm pretty sure


lMarshl

No way Grass isn't the fastest


Albiceleste_D10S

People conflate speed with other factor. Wimbledon grass hasn't been the "fastest" in ages (if it ever was). It's just lower bouncing as the ball slides low off the court. But late 2010s AO was definitively faster, as is the new USO surface.


jagaraujo

Wimbledon 40 Australian Open 35 US Open 30 Roland Garros 25


itsniickgeo

Shanghai N/A


clapclapJH31

French open 23 Aus open 31 US Open 35 Wimbledon 42 I am really not confident though as Montecarlo plays slower than Rome which plays slower than Madrid


sunseekerslade

Aus Open is low 40's. From last year: "The extreme speed of Melbourne Park's courts have been the talk of the 2021 Australian Open... According to Hawk-Eye, the average CPI at the Australian Open over the past five years is 41, making it consistently a "medium-fast" surface, and still clearly the quickest of the four Slams. However, this year, the CPI has been measured at 50, confirming players' comments about just how fast the courts are playing." https://www.espn.co.uk/tennis/story/_/id/30929156/fast-australian-open-courts-giving-novak-djokovic-unexpected-advantage


Puckingfanda

Surprised Montreal is faster than Cincy, always thought it was the reverse.


anonymoususer397

2019 had a crazy increase in CPI across the board and thats the latest data I could find. If we look at the tendency, for each year the CPI increased at a given tournament, the next year it decreased. I thought 2019 wouldn’t be representative of today’s real CPI so I went with 2017 data. That being said, it could be wrong for some of them so cincy might be faster than Montreal now. These are de data from 2015 to 2019 if anyone's interested: https://imgur.com/msty7UM


Rac3318

Cincy has never been particularly fast - typically flat medium. It’s actually supposed to even be the exact same type of court as Roger’s Cup. Supposedly they use slightly lighter tennis balls which affects the speed of the game though I don’t know if that’s true.


verbol

As an amateur, I’m playing 200hr+/yr on those Montreal courts, it doesn’t seem that fast anymore. The indoor courts on the same surface are fizzy though.


verbol

As an amateur, I’m playing 200hr+/yr on those Montreal courts, it doesn’t seem that fast anymore. The indoor courts on the same surface are fizzy though.


verbol

As an amateur, I’m playing 200hr+/yr on those Montreal courts, it doesn’t seem that fast anymore. The indoor courts on the same surface are fizzy though.


verbol

As an amateur, I’m playing 200hr+/yr on those Montreal courts, it doesn’t seem that fast anymore. The indoor courts on the same surface are fizzy though.


verbol

As an amateur, I’m playing 200hr+/yr on those Montreal courts, it doesn’t seem that fast anymore. The indoor courts on the same surface are fizzy though.


fingerdumbed

I’m pretty sure it usually is. 2017 may be an anomaly.


philippexyz

This was in 2017. CPI can change every year, who knows what it is now. There are also some other factors that influence the speed of the court, such as altitude and temperature.


raysofdavies

Cool, anyway the lack of grass is pathetic


vgibertini

This was 5 years ago. I am quite sure things have changed. This Cincinnati surface doesn't look too quick.


InRainbows183

Does a high CPI mean more friction so slower court? Or the opposite?


anonymoususer397

CPI stands for Court Pace Index, the higher the CPI the faster the court (more pace).


LordOfTheTennisDance

Roger is like......seriously guys?


indiokilmes

What makes the ball faster between different hard courts?


al_harith

The material and the finish used.


indiokilmes

So it's not just "raw concrete" as I thought


al_harith

Right. Usually the regulating base is made of concrete though (or aslphat). The top is finished with acrylic or poly. The application of the finish can also have an impact on speed (did the workers work to obtain a "smooth" finish or was it "gritty"? This is usually only an issue at municipal or community courts) Your fancy hard courts will have a cushioned layer in the middle usually to achieve the desired court speed.


stefenhyde

Is there a similar measure for bounce as well?


Octahedral_cube

It looks like three-fifths of this formula is restitution, so it already tells you a lot about bounce. But if you want to look purely at bounce you'd probably have to look at the second part in isolation.


domithiemsass

Cincinnati… slower than Montreal or paris? Fat chance


timb1223

Curious how they actually measure this?


Mario_x9

More or less it changes each year as surface is replaced, players often comment on that at the beginning of Tournaments. Generally AO series hard is fastest, USO series hard are slowest.


Ngololegend

WoW Montreal quick than Cincinnati and Miami 😱


OSUfirebird18

Possibly dumb question, but how do they scientifically figure out what the pace index of the courts are?


indiokilmes

Shangai: Gotta Go Fast!!


el-gato-azul

I was told that the pace can vary quite significantly from year to year for the US Open. Is that not true for the Masters 1000 tourneys?


anonymoususer397

Yup this are just the numbers for 2017


RoosterIcy

Eye test: Cincy faster than Montreal. The past two days have been Serve +1.


DuarteN10

Wait, has Montreal/Toronto always been this fast? I’ve been hearing for the past 18 years that the reason Rafa won there so many times there was due to it being a slower HC surface and that Cincy was one of the fastest (hence only winning there once).


Hoang_X

The ATP broadcast shows the CPI of the court before every Masters 1000 match, but they've never created a combined chart. Does anyone have full matches so we can compare the CPIs in 2022?


LipshitsContinuity

I find it interesting that smaller coefficient of restitution makes it a faster court. I guess it makes sense that a court which makes the ball not bounce as much is fast - kinda like grass.


zhuxue1989

Miami: slowest/ Madrid: fastest among clay ones/ Cincinnati and Shanghai : fastest. Court pace index is a joke, don’t take it too serious...


hungry4danish

Somewhere on the infograph should indicate the court surface.


Wollywonka

Shanghai when it was ATP finals/Masters cup I think it was faster even (2005-2008). Really miss it.