T O P
handerburgers

Magneto runs the school better than Xavier


gohawkeyes529

I just finished the original 100 New Mutants. Magneto didn’t really “run” anything. Every other story during the last half was “We’re supposed to be grounded and Magneto doesn’t know we’re gone!”


Superb_Kaleidoscope4

Yeah, I agree with this, he literally stood around trying not to be angry and then went off on his own business with the hellfire club, he was terrible... that being said Xavier did spend a lot of time in space during the Claremont era.


[deleted]

Xavier wasn't even present during the Mutant Massacre...


bloodredcookie

If nothing else, his school is much more fun to read than Xavier's ever was.


Xygnux

Corollary to this point, Magneto is much more interesting when he's reformed and holding back from using killing humans as a solution to problems, than when he's a villain.


MYJINXS

Militant “x mask” cyclops is my favorite x man ever. Said no one ever but me.


bloodredcookie

I'm there with you.


lanmetal

Same here! ❌


CollegeZebra181

Loved that particular run and period of X-Men


meatwhisper

At least until the Inhumans showed up, then Bendis couldn't figure out what the heck to do. I still love the dynamic between Scott/Emma/Yana/Mags in that.


Acchilesheel

Cyclops was right


Upthespurs1882

He ruled


PineappleExtra

i always wonder what if cyclops has astigmatisme or any other eye problem


ubiquitous-joe

Well you could just correct it with the visor. But then would he have bad vision while shooting the blasts? 🤔


Grayman222

I do not like the stories where they leave the solar system and go to cosmic stuff. Krakoa not having a school focused book is a bad take


Ikariiprince

Definitely agree on the school angle. I really think Xmen should always be about teaching the next generation to do better


thedick009

I think that's kind of what the last run of New Mutants was supposed to be? But I agree it should have been more focused, with an actual school, as opposed to the free-form hippy learning circle or whatever. Plus now that there's such a huge mutant population all living together, it would be cool to see the school as more like a giant magnet public high school with thousands of students, and the new logistical problems that come with that


Ikariiprince

I agree the new mutants is pretty much the school book of the Krakoa era


ubiquitous-joe

You mean letting them murder each other casually in the school of life and rebirth doesn’t count?


Xygnux

And it's supposed it be its own functional country too, but somehow all the geniuses neglected to build even a single school let alone an education system. The New Mutants had to write to Xavier, the guy who has been an educator his whole life, saying you know there are kids here who has nothing to do all day, mind if we actually try to teach them. And then Xavier just went k you do that go nuts kids.


DarlingLongshot

I agree about the X-Men in space. I like the X-Men because I am interested in mutant politics, but the Shi'ar and every other alien species don't care about mutant politics. A mutant is just an Earthling to them.


CollegeZebra181

Isn't that kinda the beauty of that though? Like it's the most immediate setting where the X-Men and Mutants aren't persecuted. It makes the mutants feel less like outcasts, which in turn gives them more room to develop in other ways


dacalpha

> Krakoa not having a school focused book is a bad take I'm gonna push back on this a little bit. The Western concept of schooling is built off of the notion that we must prepare children to become productive members of the economy. It's all driven by the bottom line. Those who don't become obedient worker drones end up in prison, a system designed to extract further value from the populace via taxation. We want to believe that schools exist to challenge and uplift students, and I really truly believe that many individual teachers DO just that, but the system they operate under does not do that. Why should Krakoa adhere to a *human* capitalist structure designed to extract value from it's denizens? Krakoa is a post-scarcity society. You aren't punished for not contributing to ThE eConOmy, so the incentive to partake in a Skinnerian schooling system doesn't really exist. People can learn a lot without sitting in a desk for eight hours a day and asking permission to take a shit.


IdTheDemon

1) Magneto should have remained as Xorn. He had every right to return the favor to humanity after Genosha was destroyed. Scarlet Witch seeing her father massacre thousands of humans on top of her current failing mental health would be another factor for her breakdown that would lead to "No more mutants". In those very moments, she would bring her father back to life, but without the hatred that was with him in his last moments. 2) They should have kept the Age of Apocalypse counterparts of Jean Grey, Nightcrawler and Ice Man around. Much bigger bad asses than their 616 originals. 3) Laura is arguably the most popular new mutant of the 2000's and slapping a Wolverine costume was not needed. She's more than capable of just being her own character which is a lot considering she's a Wolverine clone storywise but not character wise. Give her a new name, new costume and it's all good. This whole mantle nonsense is never needed, especially for her. 4) Stop with the retcons to coincide with the MCU. Scarlet With and Quicksilver are mutants, their father is Magneto, etc.


CollegeZebra181

I disagree on the Laura point because the reason for the change was how un-aligned X-23 had become to her identity. I think as Wolverine she has had some amazing character growth and while yes now I would say that she could develop into an identity herself, it was a necessary step


jazzyj1zzle

Strong agree on AoA characters . Nightcrawler was just amazing in UXF.


CitizenPain00

I agree with the mantle stuff. It’s just done to get clicks


StarboundandDown

- Nate Grey is criminally underused. - Beast has been effectively ruined


FidgitForgotHisL-P

It was *un*popular opinions bud, lol. Beast has been absolutely shanked, and people have argued it was a reasonable end point based on how he’d always been, but so many of us came in when he was just. A lovable blue fuzz ball hanging from the ceiling by his feet and saying “oh my stars and garters”. Who he has been shown to be now… don’t really see what kind of redmeptive arc could begin to address that.


Luchabat

Onslaught was a good story. Kinda lost itself at the end, but was more interesting that people give it credit for.


Ruiniscrazy

Onslaught was what got me into comics as a kid. It did lose itself at the end though.


10567151

I think making it an Xavier/Magneto amalgamation was a mistake. Having Xavier go full baddie should have been the big draw to the storyline.


FidgitForgotHisL-P

Not even sure if unpopular, but: Her name should have stayed Honey Badger. “Scout” is stupid AF and it feels like they’re trying to find an identity for Gabby the way they did with Kate Pryde. Honey Badger was, as Gabby herself said, perfect.


RogueEyebrow

Renaming Rachel to *Prestige* is so doggone cringe. All I can think of when I hear that is ["Prestige, World Wide!"](https://media.giphy.com/media/kUcWTx2XSKEfK/giphy.gif) from the 'Step Brothers' movie. Also, why in the world would Laura **ever** want to refer to herself as "X-23," the name she had when she was a forced assassin??


ARTIFICIAL_SAPIENCE

The Phoenix retcon where it's a space God that possessed Jean instead of just Jean losing control is the worst retcon in X-men history.


Zenith230

It didn't possess Jean though, unless this has been retconned since FF #286 where she returned. This stated that the Phoenix simply took Jean's form and left her body to heal in the cocoon in the bottom of the bay. Think of the time when the Beyonder took the form of Steve Rogers, but gave him a Jheri curl.


Effective_Ad8024

Everyone missunderstands how Jean came back to life. everyone started calling it possession after other characters( like Rachel) started being possessed by phoenix. Then jean ended up getting the memories of the phoenix time pretending to be her(don’t remember how just she talked about it happening) and was later possessed by the phoenix for real. I don’t think all the writers read all of x men history before writing x men stories , just made sure to get important bullet points , and some where jeans/phoenix got lost in translation. Cause I have read multiple stories which characters that should know what happened to Jean and say “ she was posssed by the pheonix, so wasn’t her fault she killed a world” not it was the phoenix impersonating her it wasn’t her fault. Never seen a proper retconed just think it’s supposed to be one of those plot hole that have gone on to long so we are supposed to ignore it.


Zenith230

I mean, she DID return in a Fantastic Four comic; who has time to read all those for crying out loud? /s


Winter_Coyote

>Everyone missunderstands how Jean came back to life. I think because X-Men: The Animated Series did use possession to both have it be Jean but also to fit the retcon. People just mentally past the TAS version onto comics.


Ben_Kenobi_

I love xmen, but that stuff with yhe body copying and cocoon was really silly.


Zenith230

Agreed, it was. Unfortunately it hasn't (to my knowledge) been retconned, so it still "happened" in 616.


My_DnD_Account

Is that controversial? I thought it was generally agreed to be a terrible retcon.


ARTIFICIAL_SAPIENCE

Hard for meto judge from this chair. The Phoenix Force gets dragged out often enough someone must like it. Otherwise it would have been buried ages ago.


wingedcoyote

Totally agree that it was dumb and weakened the story but at least some good stories came out of it later on. Xorn retcon is worse IMO.


ARTIFICIAL_SAPIENCE

Xorn retcon was necessary. Fight me. If we want to talk about good stories coming out of it. Heroic Magneto has been part of more good stories than Phoenix.


impasse602

Wait i thought originally it was supposed to be a soace god thingy? Was there no phoenix force to begin with?


ARTIFICIAL_SAPIENCE

Phoenix was just Jean originally. All Lilandra ever says is that she saw that Jean was a powerful entity. And Claremont's plan was that she'd get lobotomized of her power. Later Magneto would show up and tempt Jean with restoring that power. Which would cause conflict as Jean would be afraid of how it went last time.


Failure_Enabler

* Magik's current costume and terrible giant sword below in the scrap heap of terrible 90's costumes. (I'm aware they're from 2012 or 2013). * Wolverine fanboys becoming Wolverine writers is the worst thing to every happen to Wolverine. * I hope the X-men never go back to the mansion. * As I currently read it I can see exactly why silver age X-Men was cancelled (but Neal Adams art towards the end rules).


just_another_classic

>Magik's current costume and terrible giant sword below in the scrap heap of terrible 90's costumes. (I'm aware they're from 2012 or 2013). My opinion on women's costumes is: You can have a boob window, crop top, or booty shorts/swim bottoms, but you must pick 1\*. \*Unless you are Emma Frost


ubiquitous-joe

Don’t forget thigh-highs. Her tit window in particular feels conspicuous, but I have seen people do shorts and crop top as a thing. I will make the counter argument that Maddie’s limbo look may be the most unreasonable of anybody.


davicita

id agree with you so much


SchrodingersPelosi

Fully concur.


smitch9419

That they should have named the X-Men after Xavier’s first name.


bloodredcookie

To me my C-Men!


groovyvagoogoo

Nimrod as a villain is cool. Nimrod as some omnipotent unbeatable robot that the heavyweights of Krakoa can't deal with is bullshit. Everyday I pray Ultron shows up and annihilates Nimrod.


DidYouEverHear

Paul Smith is the best X-artist of all time, and From the Ashes is the greatest run of issues on the title to this day.


nicktf

100% this


MasRenrav

Wolverine is used WAY too much.


DarkAlphaZero

They asked for unpopular opinions


BlackMamba_2425

My turn! The x men movies are garbage except Logan and days of future past. Laura is way more interesting then Logan. The polyamorous relationship between Scott/Jean/ Logan is completely cringy and out of character. The Krakoa era has been great for B-list and C-list mutants, but most of the main x men are written poorly.


DarkAlphaZero

Hard agree on Laura, she’s my second favorite X-character in general honesty


davicita

The current illyana has nothing to do with the great character that she was before, she went from being one of the most significant characters, perhaps the most tragic of all, to being a model in hot pants. sad.


herrored

I’ll admit that OG New Mutants was before my time, so I don’t have a significant connection to Illyana before she died. But if you think she’s just a pair of hot pants nowadays then you haven’t actually been reading her stories


davicita

I know my friend, it is an exaggerated way of saying that the current illyana does not have the same meaning as before, she is one of my favorite characters and I am always happy to see her, but nothing really important has been done with her. however I have faith that in new mutants we will see something interesting.


thedick009

I hate Wolverine's bone claws. To me, the implication that existed before that retcon, that being that the claws were entirely an invention of the Weapon X program, was always far more interesting. I like that he was just a regular guy with healing powers, and it was the horrible dehumanizing experiments done to him that turned him into the animal known as the Wolverine. The bone claws completely lessen that. They imply that he was always this weird feral monster and all Weapon X did was add metal. While we're on the subject, I kind of hate 'secondary mutations' in general. To me one of the core tenants of the X-Men, and what makes so many of the characters more interesting than other superheroes, is the fact that they only have one single special thing about them. Scott has optic blasts, but other than that he's just a guy, and he's constantly forced to compensate for that with training and tactics. To me that's much more interesting than, for example, a character like Monet, who is super strong and super fast and super smart and also telepathic and also turns into a big red spike monster. Edits: typos


MagicRat7913

One hundred percent agree on Wolverine. Overall I hated Wolverine: Origins with a passion. It's as bad an idea as George Lucas showing Darth Vader as a little kid, totally destroys everyone's headcannon and doesn't add anything important to his character in the present day. Logan's memories should never have come back.


HelloIamIronMan

Wolverine is somehow the center of the best and worst Marvel comic stories, often at the exact same time. The 1990s animated show made some really bad changes to the source material. The Phoenix saga kinda sucks


Cervus95

Everytime they sideline the lesser known mutants for the Claremont team, they shot themselves on the foot. They've told a million stories with them already, the new guys add variety.


ABotInDisguise

Agreed. Ironically, Claremont intended for characters to retire to civilian life eventually(or die). They weren't meant to hang around forever. There's so many cool X-Kids we never truly get to explore because they get sidelined to rehash arcs from older characters.


NC_Goonie

Claremont treated it as an ongoing soap opera that, like you said, allowed characters to grow, move on, etc. So many writers/editors since then have instead treated is as “now it’s my turn to play in the sandbox with the toys Claremont made cool.”


Mike_R_5

Yes! This guy gets it.


Inevitable-Careerist

Agreed. One thing I liked about recent X-Men storylines as a casual fan is the proliferation of characters I'd never heard of, who had their own dramas to add to the mix. It seemed more egalitarian, more Legion of Super-Heroes, if you will.


Speedwizard106

Claremont's return to X-books in the late 90s/2000s were all mid at best.


TheChesterChesterton

I remember trying to read X-Men Forever (2009) and realizing the glory days are gone for good. Claremont might have still been doing good work elsewhere but it really felt like someone in their 40s trying to fit back into their clothes from their early 20s.


Thwipped

This hurt me more than it should


TheChesterChesterton

Awe, I'm sorry didn't mean to hurt anyone! If it helps I still hold Claremont in great esteem and my metaphor is one I greatly identify with LOL


19ghost89

This is an unpopular opinion? I always thought it was pretty widely agreed upon that Claremont declined with every run. I agree with that too, though I actually still have an overall positive opinion of most of what he did up until the last several issues of X-Treme.


tiltedslim

I haven't seen anything in this thread that's unpopular..... I loved the Bendis run. I he should have put the O5 away a lot sooner than he did and there's way too much Wolverines running around, but I loved his new characters. Deadpool fangirling over Goldballs, Every single thing about Tempus. Magik getting Dr. Strange training. Beast trying to at least show Cyclops what he is because he knows telling him won't do it. I think his run gets a lot of hate that's unjustified. I think like a lot of writers, he got editorially messed with by making him shoehorn a Wolverine version into his team and with crossover that sucked (Axis).


KielCanal

Jean is just fine. The Phoenix saga should be left as it is from other media cause they just aren’t going to get it right.


Illegitimos

I think the closest we'll ever get is the Nineties animated series, which I'm fine with. I'd also be happy enough to eventually have to eat those words.


ubiquitous-joe

The irony is that the MCU would have the capacity to introduce space aliens and stuff in a way that could sort of make it work. But no, I don’t want to see them try for a while.


Effective_Ad8024

I feel that Jean should have stayed dead, ( at least for a bit longer)X factor and a lot of stories after hurt her character and the ending of story. As well as other stories like Madeline and Rachel’s of were they were going. Everything had to change when she came.


lovecraftiangod

Old man logan isn't good


w3hwalt

It's so spiteful and negative, a genuinely hateful look at the Marvel universe in the name of being 'gritty'.


DarlingLongshot

That's Mark Millar for ya


thegreatvortigaunt

That's what made it kinda fun though. It was post-apocalypse Marvel. The story made no sense but it was a neat one-off short story.


w3hwalt

We can agree to disagree! I just don't come to a genre where people unironically wear spandex for grittiness.


uninspiredalias

SERIOUSLY. But that's basically how I feel about ?all? Millar's stuff. Like he didn't really "get" Marvel (edit I forgot about Authority, it's not just Marvel) comics and just wanted to piss on everything.


ARTIFICIAL_SAPIENCE

Old Man Logan and Dark Knight Returns. Edit: Same energy, immensely popular. Not a fan.


GoldandBlue

Agree. I think they are good idea which is why Logan is such a great film. But Old Man Logan and TDKR seem to hate what these heroes represent.


Onisquirrel

Different writers. Though easily confused if you go by last name. DKR - Frank Miller OML - Mark Millar


My_DnD_Account

Different writer actually. Old Man Logan is Mark Millar. Dark Knight Returns is Frank Miller.


ARTIFICIAL_SAPIENCE

Have we ever seen them in the same room together?


tired20something

I haven't, but I wouldn't want to be in that room either.


DarlingLongshot

Nightmare blunt rotation


mattdangerously

It's one of the worst comics I've ever read. Mark Millar is a fucking awful writer when Grant Morrison isn't ghostwriting for him.


Deanisgawd

What do you mean about Morrison ghost writing for him?


My_DnD_Account

[Apparently Morrison ghost wrote an issue of the Authority for Millar.](https://www.cbr.com/comic-book-urban-legends-revealed-163/)


xZOMBIETAGx

Why is this a movie


i_kick_hippies

Ruby Summers deserves to exist.


FribonFire

Unless you read him as a young kid and didn't know better, Gambit is an absolute dirt bag.


ghoulieandrews

Honestly that's why I like him, and Marvel in general. After my wife and I watched MoM she turned to me and said "wow, Dr Strange is kind of an asshole" and I was like "yeah, isn't it great?" Love my t'ievin' swamp rat.


My_DnD_Account

That's why I felt like the MoM's portrayal of Strange was the best yet.


Romy134

My Guy!


classicrockchick

Well, yeah. But he's also pretty haunted by the shit he's done. He's a dirtbag but he's *trying* to do better and has arguably only recently done a good job of it ~~because no one has done anything significant with him in years (aside from marrying Rogue)~~


19ghost89

Yeah, my unpopular opinion as a kid was that I actually \*didn't\* care about Gambit much. I grew to like and appreciate him as a character when I read through all of X-Men in the last several years.


jennaisrad

I am so over Logan/Wolverine being in EVERYTHING and his book being a must-read for x-storylines. Please give the old motherfucker a break, thanks.


seanofkelley

Logan is boring as a character.


ghoulieandrews

I think if you read the Claremont run of X-Men in a vacuum, putting aside the knowledge of everything that came after, he was a really fantastic character and is a great wild card element for the team. It's this weird thing with him where the more you actually learn about him and his past the less interesting he gets. But yeah, modern Logan is super boring.


seanofkelley

To actually expand on my thought a bit, I think part of the problem with him (and this is true of LOTS of characters but it seems particularly true of Logan) is the thing that makes him interesting- this deeply scarred, abused person who's had violence forced upon his whole life gradually overcoming that violence bit by bit- is different from the thing that Marvel perceives as making him marketable BERSERKER RAGE AND FIGHTING NINJAS and so he ends up in this weird purgatory depending on who's writing him and more often than not he ends up going more towards the latter than the former. Like there's only so much you can develop the character because the end of that character journey is probably him giving up being a superhero or even giving up killing.


w3hwalt

I love Wolverine and Wolverine stories and even I agree with this. Can't stand all the ooh manly man stories that get churned out (especially by Percy) when the most interesting thing about Logan is how he *breaks* those masculine stereotypes by having trauma, being sensitive, being into philosophy and poetry, etc etc.


seanofkelley

I think a writer could actually get a ton of mileage out of a story where Logan decides not to kill anymore and to find different ways to solve his problems.


Mike_R_5

Spot on. Worst thing they ever did was give him his memory back


Medium-Science9526

I will say I prefer him I'm X-team books than standalone for the most part.


seanofkelley

Yeah I think the ideal Logan is "learning something about himself through his friendship with Nightcrawler" or "arguing with/flirting with Cyclops"


19ghost89

Logan's problem is that he's too popular, so the only thing Marvel will ever allow with him is the illusion of growth. That's why it took 20-some-odd years to tell his origin story. We have to keep making you think there's more worth finding down this rabbit hole. I really like Logan and I also understand why someone would feel this way. It's... frustrating to have so much fake progress.


xfireslidex

I don't think he's boring, I'm just bored of him.


sorryloserboy

Nightcrawler is the best x-men


SakmarEcho

He came second in the favourite X-Man poll on this sub recently that’s not at all an unpopular opinion!


herrored

This is an extremely popular opinion


Mike_R_5

Correct.


19ghost89

1. Chuck Austen's run has interesting moments and isn't bad. I liked most of it. 2. 90's era X-Men is \*extremely\* overrated. The character development for most of the team was very stagnant for most of the decade. It took the writers post-Claremont a significant amount of time to find their footing. \*I still like most of it, it's just weak by comparison to what comes before and after. 3. X-Force was, overall, the best X-book of the 90's. 4. Cable is the best character of the 90's and has the most dynamic character growth (this probably isn't actually an unpopular opinion, it just kind of goes with my comment about X-Force so I wanted to add it).


SakmarEcho

I don’t know if it’s unpopular but more unspoken but the sliding timescale fucks the X-Men more than any other team/group in Marvel.


538_Jean

They did Madelyn Prior dirty. They made her evil by treating her inhumanly. She was justified is every way to want them to suffer.


SoundwavesBurnerPage

Wolverine and the XMen, despite being cut criminally short, is still the best XMen show ever made


prettyminotaur

Wolverine sucks and is one of the most boring characters in the X-Men. I refuse to accept the Azazel storyline as canon. Mystique is Kurt's father, Destiny's his mother, like Cockrum intended. Generation X > New Mutants (them's fighting words!) Kitty Pryde is always Shadowcat to me. Emma & Scott > Jean & Scott


ubiquitous-joe

Oh, in my head canon Azazel doesn’t even exist.


handerburgers

I like Hama’s take on wolverine that he is basically the ultimate nice guy.


the_bio

Generation X >>> New Mutants The New Mutants just come across as whiny brats.


DarkAlphaZero

I just can’t buy Kurt we Destiny’s child, I feel like Mystique would’ve loved him if he was. Definitely agree about Shadowcat and Scott x Emma though.


fonsoc

Emma and Scott is way better!!!!! More Grown-Upish


Mike_R_5

Everything post-Claremont feels like fan-fiction to me.


FidgitForgotHisL-P

I think this is inevitable across pretty much all long running comics that go through multiple creators. You hit a point where the writers are people who grew up fans, and we all know fans should never, ever, dictate what happens to characters. Few writers break that mould, many never do and should probably have stuck to creator-owned stuff but then, the Mouse is gonna wrong their acquisitions dry so here we are.


redfactor21

Scott and Emma are a way better couple than him and Jean.


Vivalaredsox

I really hope we get Him and Emma in the MCU. I actually liked him when he was with Emma


redfactor21

He had more character growth when they were together imo.


ggez67890

Why’s this a video?


_Siii_

The top tier omega characters like storm, iceman and jean are incredibly disinteresting as feets of power and wider power expansion essentially turns them into "one man armies" taking away what makes the xmen interesting the team aspect


handerburgers

I like the early Jim Lee art a lot better than his work on X-men volume 2.


GStewartcwhite

UnCanny X-Men 211 is the best issue they've ever done and the Morlock massacre was the most compelling and high stakes story they ever did. A group of evil Mutants on par with the X-Men instead of a single big bad. Real and lasting (for comics) consequences for multiple characters It gave us Wolvie vs Sabertooth for the first time It gave us Excalibur It brought Psylocke (good British Psylocke to them team) It gave us "Harpoon, make peace with your god little man, you are next."


alexander4729

Mister Sinister is an AWESOME villain, top 3 best villains if not the best. Also, he is unapologetically underused.


Bronzeexcellence

Wolverine is best used in comics like a seasoning and not the main course— just a dash of Logan being a grumpy Canadian is great. Solo title weeb Logan is guaranteed boring every time, even by writers I enjoy.


LeviHighChair

Scott didn’t suffer enough consequences for abandoning his literal wife and child for a dead girl. Yes I’m still mad about Inferno.


pierowmaniac

Fucking preach. His character assassination at the hands of the editors was infuriating.


Perjunkie

Kitty and Illyana shouldnt happen. If my sister hooked up with an ex who had left me at the altar, then that relationship would be over. No exceptions. Poor Colossus is being gracious enough as is being ok with Illyana/Kitty being bff's. HoX/PoX was an interesting concept and set up a unique playground, but as a story it barely meets the bar.


handerburgers

On Krakoa: probably because the guy who came up with the idea didn’t write the vast majority of the stories of that era.


Admirrrr

> If my sister hooked up with an ex who had left me at the altar, then that relationship would be over. No exceptions. Poor Colossus is being gracious enough as is being ok with Illyana/Kitty being bff's. It's baffling how this is unpopular. Those shippers have too little grasp of reality, if at all.


calliduslupus

Maddie was done dirty but not by Scott. What actually happened is wildly different to how people remember it. Rogue and Gambit are a terrible couple. Scott and Emma > Scott and Jean. Krakoa is wasted potential.


Luchabat

How is Krakoa wasted potential? Genuinely curious.


calliduslupus

There was the opportunity for a solid start, middle, and end that was squandered because Marvel wanted to milk it for more money. A lot of the interesting plot threads and ideas have been wasted because they need to be extended indefinitely. It was a real opportunity to invigorate the line that now just feels aimless. It may look better in hindsight, but right now it's a mess. Plus I'm just not a fan of the stories being told. I'm an old and irrelevant fan, but Krakoa is the complete antithesis of Xavier's dream and not what the X-Men fought for for decades.


RiverRedhorse93

all the tease of the inevitable crashing down of this house of cards and instead all we got was a lame miniseries to write out Moira instead of pulling the trigger, such a shame


Effective_Ad8024

Agree Maddie was done dirty, Jean didn’t even know her eat but talked crap about her to Scott and was shown no compassion for what she went through by really anyone and nobody really helped her look for her son


Effective_Ad8024

Scott and Emma was a better couple. The helped each other grow. They didn’t judge each other but also held each other accountable. They kept some big secrets from each other at time but came clean and supported each other with their problems. Jean and Scott may have been good at one point, but became unhealthy. Scott her on such a pedestal which developed like an obsession with her in his grief and it carried over when she came back to life. They both just come off as not being in a healthy loving relationship but remember how it used to be and are to scared to admit that what they had is over, cause that would make what they had as less real or that the failed. Seen it happened to relationships in real life they feel like the have to make it work, cause it mattered to them to much in the past for it not to be “the real thing “. Love can change and Relationships end that doesn’t mean it was any less true. I think they need to recognize that and move on with their lives.


metal_monkey80

I used to like Jubilee but I think that everything that did to her after M-Day has been stupid. The New Warriors run, the Vampire nonsense, having a kid - I think it's all dumb.


GStewartcwhite

But you see, the kid is a dragon....


TheRealMoofoo

I hated most of the Morrison run, and think Cassandra Nova is a trash bag character. Edit: also Frank Quitely’s art makes it look like everyone has been in the pool too long, to the point that even their faces and clothes are pruning.


Fanraeth

I hate his art so much, which makes the fact that he did the art for my favorite Superman story really frustrating.


TheRealMoofoo

Oh god, I feel like he was even worse for Superman; he not only did the prune thing a lot, but the head sizes and shapes were so inconsistent. Sometimes it would be this weird round squishy thing, and other times he'd have the bone structure of Jay Leno (but with even more chin).


AdamEssex

Igor Kordey is a fantastic artist. But, Marvel gave him such ludicrous timelines as the fill-in on New X-Men that he was set up to fail. His run on Soldier X/Cable had some gorgeous work.


pierowmaniac

* The classic Inferno storyline was a dumpster fire. Not just that Pryor's story and character were done dirty, but the unnecessary amount of padding and convoluted actions between even individual panels in Uncanny X-Men and X-Factor is boggling. * On that note, X-Factor (vol. 1) had atrocious art. * Cyclops was wrong.


davicita

what i cant understand about inferno is the hyped battle of the xmen and the marauders, they were killed off panel


Inevitable-Careerist

I know what you mean. I'm listening to a podcast that is going over the Claremont-written issues of X-Men and they have remarked several times that due to Claremont's overbusy plotting (or maybe some miscommunication with the artists), many key dramatic events take place off-panel and then are clumsily referred to in dialogue. Villains routinely escape off-panel, for example, even after an epic brawl. Oh, and Cyclops proposing to Madelyne Pryor. One issue they're falling in love, the next they're referred to as engaged. Did he get down on one knee? Did he remove his glasses for the kiss? We'll never know.


hankmunroe

I was doing my first real read through starting from giant size 1 and Inferno is what derailed me. That was a couple years ago and I haven't been back since. Thinking about jumping in again soon.


Effective_Ad8024

Madeline was so screwed over. She went through so much crap and was treated poorly. While Jean acted erratic and selfish once she came back . Not without good reason she went through a lot too but no one in X factor called her out on it. Seemed like inferno was just to make Pryor look bad and Jean the hero and was poorly done.


Ready_Wall_8295

The art design for Grant Morrison's New X-Men series is laughable.


wingedcoyote

Colossus is incredibly boring. All the good stories about him have been attempts to write him out of the franchise, and then people keep fucking it up by bringing him back in.


Log_Log_Log

Turning Betsy Braddock, a character so british that she shits the queen, into the token ninja asian is pretty insultingly tone deaf and shouldn't have happened in the first place. The whole Phoenix was just imitating Jean while she chilled in a cocoon and, surprise, Jean's not actually dead thing takes the piss out of the Dark Phoenix arc and shouldn't have happened. I don't care that they wanted the OG 5 for X-Factor, they could have worked in Maddy or slapped a red wig on that FF cartoon robot and bacronymed its name to J.E.A.N. Professor X didn't make more of an effort to recruit young mutants who later became Morlocks because he wanted more photogenic and "passable" pretty muties to be the face of his movement. Having characters simultaneously live in a world where some lament at how their powers are such a burden *and* every jobber has access to mutant inhibitor collars is sloppy. Fact is Rogue should be able to go be a slut and Cyclops can enjoy a sunset with pretty much no consequence at any given time.


Loneshark707

Claremont wanted to use Jean's sister. He was against resurrecting Jean because it undid all of the work he put into Cyclops. Jim Shooter eventually forced him to do it.


peanutsinspace82

Which is funny since it was Shooter that ultimately led to Jean's death being written into the DPS.


thegreatvortigaunt

> Turning Betsy Braddock, a character so british that she shits the queen, into the token ninja asian is pretty insultingly tone deaf and shouldn't have happened in the first place. At least they eventually worked this out like 30 years later.


calliduslupus

The OG plan was for it to be temporary if I recall correctly, just took a while to get to.


davicita

i think that your opinions are really reasonable my friend.


Likemikester

Scott and Jean are the best couple in Marvel


GStewartcwhite

We need an ALPHA FLIGHT movie, show, something STAT! Come on Disney!! You did reverse Batman before the team that represents a country of almost 40 million people!


mattdangerously

Morrison and Millar worked together a lot in the late 90s and early 2000s. There's at least one issue of Authority that was written by Morrison but credited to Millar.


Broken_Noah

\- Never a fan of Scott + Jean \- Gambit always looks cool but I never liked him as a character \- Retire the Phoenix Force, at least for a long while. It's been played out. \- This subreddit


Potential_Detail_611

- Firestar is underutilized; she is literally hot. Now where is she at? - Iceman should have his own cool storyline perhaps as big as some of the other o5 (like Jean's Phoenix saga or Warren's Archangel arc), isn't he Omega-level? Spidey's friends need more love.


seliselio

Xavier is from Massachusetts and the films are destroyingpopular perceptions of the characters.


RogueEyebrow

Logan (The Movie) disrespects the comics & fans, and misses the mark on Wolverine's personality. It is a very enjoyable movie, and by far the best of the Foxverse (arguably a masterpiece), however my gripes are twofold: 1) They went out of their way to have Logan belittle the comics, and demean the fans. Sneering when he found out that *"Laura was an X-Men Fan"* he condescendingly referred to comics readers are babies *("ice cream for bed-wetters")* and the stories and heroes themselves were *"self-promoting assholes in leotards."* There are very adult themes in the stories, and a large chunk of the fanbase are adults. 2) Logan in the comics has been a well-established father-figure to numerous young girls (Kitty, Jubilee, Armor and *Laura*), so he does *not* "suck at this." He's the best there is at what he does, and what he does is mentor young girls - just like Laura.


LeastWalrus7291

I must say that I respectfully disagree with your conclusion (the movie disrespects comics/ fans), and your reasoning. I'll give you my two cents on the film and I guess you can take it or leave it but here it goes (TL;DR at the end). 1) I think it is important to remember that this movie is more about being a send off to the Logan/Wolverine character as appears in the film franchise portrayed by Hugh Jackman. The Fox films were for better or (usually) worse, different animals than the comics and so are the characters portrayed in them. The source material for the movie is more Jackman's time playing the character than anything specifically from the comics. Keep that in mind if you watch it again. 2) While the "bed wetter" stuff is in the movie I don't think these comments are either truthful or somehow reflective of the filmmakers' genuine opinions. The thrust of the movie is not 'Logan is right about everything and Laura is stupid and needs to stop being such a nerd' it's kind of the opposite of that. Logan is saying that stuff because most of the people in that comic that she was showing him are dead and he feels responsible, not because he thinks he's too cool for school or whatever. He starts the movie as a broke ass limo driver who lives in the middle of nowhere and spends his days cleaning Xavier's diapers and wallowing in grief and regret. If anything the film is showing Logan as the pitiable one not Laura, who is inspired by the comic book to find a better life for her and her friends (which they do at the end of the film). Pay attention in the back half of the film when Laura brings out comic book again after the veterinarian scene. Logan's not angry or condescending, he's sad. He hates the comic because it reminds him of all his dead friends and how he couldn't save them (like he thinks a real hero would have) He isolated himself from the world at the beginning of the movie because he feels he let the let the rest of the X- men down and is afraid he will let Laura down as well. The comic book that appears in the film is also the literal map that Laura is following to freedom (which they find at the end of the film) in spite of Logan's earlier skepticism. I don't think anything in the movie is intended to be derisive toward comic books or readers, again, Laura is the motivated kid who drives the film forward, Logan is the grumpy old man who is told repeatedly to get over himself. 3) "I suck at this" is what Logan says because he thinks it's true, whether or not it actually is. The continuity of the Fox films is ... obtuse, at best, but in the context of the specific film 'Logan' and Mangold's (the writer/director) previous film 'The Wolverine' Logan has seen almost everybody he cared about including the other X men die and feels immensely guilty over that fact whether he actually is responsible or not. Everyone around him he either kills or let's die/be killed by someone or something else. That's how he sees himself and he thinks the same will happen to Laura if she stays with him. No one is saying that the character in the comics was never a good mentor for Kitty and Jubilee and the others, but in the specific context of this specific film Logan thinks he will be bad for Laura. This a view that is not seemingly shared by anyone else in the film including Laura herself and Logan's own mentor Charles, because he actually is a good influence on her (and she kind of mentors him too in a way, it's a reciprocal thing in the movie, because the arc is more Logan's rather than Laura's but still.) At the end of the film (SPOILER warning I guess) when Laura buries Logan she a) gives a eulogy by quoting the film 'Shane' (a film about a violent gunslinger's mentor like relationship with a young boy) and then b) changes his grave marker from a standard cross to a big ol' "X" which is one of the most unapologetically schmaltzy/cheesy things I've seen in a recent comic book film. Clearly Logan (and the idea of the X-Men) mean a lot to her despite Logan's earlier scoffing. This ended up longer than I thought, sorry. Thank you for attending my delirious ramblin- I mean Tedx talk TL;DR The film version of Logan is an outwardly cynical old man who is drowning in his own grief and self-loathing, not everything he says should be taken at face value and should not be taken as a straight adaption from the comics.


alexander4729

Wolverine is OVER-RATED


yuhmamazama

Wolverine isn't as interesting as he is meant to be, and I don't get why his story is so popular


officer_salem

Claremont’s run is the most essential x-men run but not even close to the best. I’ll die on this hill.


[deleted]

Scemma broke Cyclops to me. I tolerated the maddie incident because because everybody messes up even if it is wrong but doing it again for long and keep doing in is gross, He is such a shit partner now, and that wound will never close because marvel will always keep teasing scemma, hard to heal my perception of my with that being the case. Betraying the people who loves you is so coward and weak.


lepton_neutrino

All the subtext people claim to see with Iceman, Kitty, Rachel and Illyana is mostly in their heads. Cyclops was wrong, the Avengers were right. Brian Braddock is the true Captain Britain.


[deleted]

Reading Uncanny X-Men after Jim Lee's first issue is like watching a virus(the virus in question is Jim Lee's art) slowly overwhelm and take over someone's body. After the virus gets the body, it just devours the remainings and moves on. His art is at its best when it was just a Marc Silvestri immitation.


calliduslupus

I'd take Jim Lee over Whilce Portacio or Rob Liefeld.


Mike_R_5

Interesting. I find Liefeld wildly overrated, and Portacio wildly underrated. I do love 90's Lee though


GStewartcwhite

Id take Jim Davis over Liefeld...


Speedwizard106

The 90s in general were more style over substance. Jim Lee art was great, the storylines were a different matter...


MastaGarza

Just got Uncanny X-Men 248 Jim Lees first issue.


K-Kitsune

If, as a post-Claremont X-men writer, you cannot write a good Storm then you are not a good X-writer.


Captain_Cringe_

Wolverine shouldn’t have natural bone claws


w3hwalt

Leah Williams' X-Factor was terrible and actively set back the characterization of most of the main cast, Daken especially. Eye-Boy is boring and I want to see less of him. Glob Herman is fine but way too over exposed for a character with so little going on.


Failure_Enabler

> Eye-Boy is boring and I want to see less of him He was the only character I liked from her run.


w3hwalt

Unpopular opinion's gonna be unpopular 🤷


davicita

i know this is about unpopular opinions, but your opinion about glob... you are monster


fightfordawn

All Chuck Austen should be stricken from canon. Juggernaut was never an X-man and never should be Nightcrawler isn't part actual Demon, which strips away decades of character development. All the people who died and are then reborn on Krakoa are still dead. That their is a clone with all of their memories running around doesn't change that. Most of our original heroes died in space, falling into the sun...


19ghost89

I don't think people not liking Chuck Austen is remotely close to being an unpopular opinion. It's basically all I ever hear of that run. My unpopular opinion is that I mostly liked it.